LoRa mesh is an absolutely PROPRIETARY, CLOSED SOURCE scam that wasted my money
1mon 7d ago by piefed.social/u/iloveDigit in meshtastic@mander.xyz
Edit - for anyone that hasn't noticed, moderators/admins have removed several of my comments and locked the post so new comments can't be added.
I spent over 100k sats on 2 pieces of landfill trash, because of retailers and other websites and random people lying about LoRa mesh protocols being "open source."
The goal was already to spread the word about lies these retailers and other related sites spread, e.g. gaslighting users about end-to-end encryption, but there's no point using the network to spread the word about the lie of being open source. It's a fool's errand, the corporations already scammed my money out of me and they'll just use me to make even more money while I try to tell people to stop wasting the money. There's simply no productive point when it involves spending money on closed source proprietary shit, and lying about being open source just makes it even worse.
So now I have a SenseCap and a Wio Tracker L1 Pro shipping to me for nothing except to scrap for parts like the batteries, and throw the malware transceiver/computer parts in the garbage so nobody can use them to spread this piece of shit malware cult.
Have fun downvoting/removing/banning me, to the majority here moronic enough to side with the scammers even after reading the truth.
Don't worry, I wouldn't ban you for this.
Yes, the physical modulation implemented by LoRa transceivers is proprietary.
It is not entirely correct to say that the "mesh" itself is proprietary. Meshtastic is open source, even if it relies on proprietary radio hardware. In principle, one could take the Meshtastic codebase and adapt it to a different physical layer.
It is perfectly reasonable to reject a technology because the full stack is not open. That said, once you look closely at most modern digital and RF hardware, you are extremely likely to encounter proprietary ICs, firmware, or physical layer implementations somewhere in the stack.
This sounds like a good challenge us someone actually had the time.
Meshtastic is not "open source," you are lying.
The issue isn't the "full stack," it is the lie.
Luanti running in Windows: open source game, not open source full stack.
Team Fortress 2 running on any OS: not open source, people lie about it being open source.
Understand difference between "lie" and "open source software but not full stack"
I promise you I am not lying to you. I may be mis-understanding you.
Here is the source code for Meshtastic firmware: https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware
But I am assume that we have a different understanding of what is and what isn't open source.
Here is the homepage, and that is not what it says: https://meshtastic.org/
That's the joke
I understand you are angry but posting "you are lying" is unnecessarily hostile.
Many people, like me, are uninformed on LoRa and meshtastic.
I literally have no idea about it other than fluffy articles and YouTubers.
I do know that Linux is called OpenSource despite relying on closed source binary blobs for virtually all real world implementations.
I do know that Linux is called OpenSource despite relying on closed source binary blobs for virtually all real world implementations.
There are many linux distributions without blobs or that let you sort these out.
While there are distros without proprietary blobs they literally don't function on anything other than Risc-V CPUs.
All Linux distros that work with AMD, Intel and ARM cpus come with proprietary CPU blobs.
You want wifi on that open source Risc V hardware? Proprietary blob.
This seems exactly like the OP's complaint. Meshtastic without the closed source doesn't do anything. Linux without the closed source CPU blobs and closed source wifi blobs doesn't do anything.
It is known that the chip itself is not open source, and that is unfortunate, but the software being built on top of it absolutely is open source.
So you are only half right.
No, I'm two halves right and you are wrong.
The chip itself being closed source isn't the problem, I knew that before I ordered (and my discussion thread about it on reddit also gave the community the opportunity to clarify the entire ecoystem lying about being "open source" before my money was wasted, but nobody bothered to tell me).
The problem is the software built on top of it being a proprietary protocol: a LoRa mesh network. Meshtastic and Meshcore are exclusively based on LoRa, which is proprietary, so they are not open source.
If I bought this for Reticulum, you could say the software was fully open source, but I didn't.
It's like a game that calls itself "open source" when it compiles nothing without a proprietary game engine, or a game engine that calls itself "open source" when it compiles jack shit without DirectX. That's not open source software, it's proprietary software with a useless piece of it open-sourced for no purpose except to justify lying about the whole thing being "open source."
Deleted my original reply because it didn't address the core issue enough.
Well here's your problem
You are using open/closed source differently than everyone else
That's hardly their only problem...
Nope, I'm only using it differently from people who use it wrong. That's part of using terms correctly.
So what exactly is stopping you from building your own radio and writing meshtastic firmware for it?
I have no idea what it takes to push open source development to where it can compete with proprietary stuff like meshtastic/LoRa.
Really good coders do it, e.g. Opus audio codec beating many proprietary audio codecs, but I'm not a coder.
I'm gonna have to work with off-the-shelf stuff. An option I'm considering now is Reticulum, with non-LoRa hardware.
“But I’m not a coder. ”
Then why the fuck do you care about it being open source?
I guess just because I'm not a coder doesn't mean I'm retarded?
Are you sure about that?
Are you fucking unfamiliar with "I guess?"
With that definition, no software running on Windows or Mac OS could ever be called open source, since it runs on a proprietary OS
You are incorrect and I'm not sure what made you think this
Malware? You say you’re sharing the truth but make such claims without proof.
is all meshtastic closed source?
Meshtastic (and Meshcore) are technically open source protocols but the LoRa technology they both use is proprietary.
Reticulum?
Not with LoRa devices, after I was scammed into buying them for a network people actually use in my country.
But maybe with less expensive, more open devices that could be worth investing in without other users.
Less expensive than like 9 bucks?
Cheapest shittiest Meshtastic devices retail for at least $40 each in the US, stop lying
Perfectly good radios can indeed be less than $9 each out of the box, unlike Meshtastic
What is your problem dude lol. I'm not lying to you. I said reticulum and I don't use meshtastic. You can buy a seeed Xiao chip and run an Rnode on it for 9 Canadian dollars. I know this because I bought one and then did that.
If you weren't lying, now would be the time to link me to the retailer's webpage and maybe prove it accepts US addresses and my debit card accepts Canadian dollar transactions.
Also, if you weren't lying, there probably wouldn't be the word "chip" in place of "device" or any other word you could have used in your sentence that wouldn't hint at the purchase being incomplete and incapable of doing what you said.
What in the name of fuck is your problem man? Not that you deserve it, and not that I need to "prove" shit to you. But just in case anyone else is looking.
https://www.seeedstudio.com/Wio-SX1262-with-XIAO-ESP32S3-p-5982.html
Thank you for confirming you were lying
My debit card does not accept transactions from that retailer at all, even in USD, let alone CAD
And that is not a standalone device or even a device you can pair with a cell phone for anything beyond a very temporary very short-distance link
Hey, just be be clear once again. Fuck you bud. Seriously go fuck yourself with a rusty pole.
But just in case anyone else is reading, you can absolutely flash this thing with the reticulum rnode software and run a standalone LoRa client capable of receiving and transmitting text over whatever network you are capable of interfacing with.
I happen to have paired mine with a micro-pc so I can have additional capabilities, but this is not at all a requirement. Mine is paired with an Rpi zero2w and runs a node on the nomad network as well as a full propagation node on the LXMF network.
With a bit of tinkering (and zero fucking money or proprietary software) I've made it accessible on the clear web as a TCP/LORA interface for the reticulum network.
I've spent more and done more because I felt like building my own infrastructure for fun.
If you want to not do that, there is another version of the linked product above but with a 3d printed case for another 5 bucks, and you can literally just get that and use it.
Holy fucking fuck. I hate this guy so much.
It doesn't even have a battery and you're calling it standalone, I'm not reading past that
Hate me for calling you a liar, while you keep lying
Yeah.... It has a USBc plug.
You weren't one complaining about 40 bucks. If you want a screen and a battery you'll have to buy those. Sorry they don't come with the 9 dollar computer chips that already provide all of the functionality.
I didn't know LoRa was proprietary, it's also not concerning to me. I run Linux happily on intel, AMD, etc, etc. Thanks for the information though.
I get that you're at the Intel buying level of person, but even you should be able to notice that your laptop probably didn't lie about having an "open source" ISA on the brand's homepage. I wonder if Intel did either, AMD definitely doesn't.
Imagine if the AMD homepage was like this
I get that you're at the Intel buying level of person
What does that mean? When are we doing level of person now? Am I a greater or lesser level of person than you? Genuinely answer that: am I a greater or lesser level of person than you because I buy intel/amd products?
Anyways, my point was more about Linux still being considered open source.
People don't keep buying Intel past lvl50, idk what to tell you
Linux can run without AMD64, Meshtastic can't run without LoRa
People don't keep buying Intel past lvl50, idk what to tell you
Would you like to change your silly back peddling in to a genuine apology?
What's stopping meshtastic running without LoRa? Just that no-one has yet to write the capability into the source code yet?
First question: I am not backpedaling. I am not a patient or kind person, and my cruelty is not the subhuman Israeli variety. Telling me you buy Intel products immediately eliminates any chance of me thinking you can engage with me peer-to-peer as a fluent English speaker. I hope that makes what I was trying to say clearer, since it seems you struggled to understand the previous phrasing.
Second question: correct, a future multimodal version of Meshtastic is a good, plausible, perhaps likely idea when someone feels like coding it. I'll still never be involved under a brand name that scammed my fucking money from me.
First question: I am not backpedaling. I am not a patient or kind person, and my cruelty is not the subhuman Israeli variety. Telling me you buy Intel products immediately eliminates any chance of me thinking you can engage with me peer-to-peer as a fluent English speaker. I hope that makes what I was trying to say clearer, since it seems you struggled to understand the previous phrasing.
I can work with that. Given that you do not know "I run Linux happily on intel, AMD, etc, etc." Is a cromulent English sentence, you have eliminated any chance of me thinking you can engage with me peer to peer as a fluent English speaker. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that has been eliminated now too.
Second question: correct, a future multimodal version of Meshtastic is a good, plausible, perhaps likely idea when someone feels like coding it. I'll still never be involved under a brand name that scammed my fucking money from me.
Thanks that's all I needed. You are a deeply un-serious person with a deeply un-serious point.
Just as an aside. If you have to lower the 'cruelty' bar to 'Israeli Genocide' in order go clear it, introspection may be required.
I don't wall kids in and bomb them, I just tell harsh truth. If you prefer it other way around, your kind of cruelty isn't my kind and you can go fuck yourself, idiot.
What does that have to do with meshtastic being open source, while LoRa is not? Please stay relevant to the thread.
You're just confirming that you are incapable of communicating with me, peer-to-peer, as a person fluent in English. I agree that you clear that bar, I think it's a shame you feel the need to lower it that far.
For your own sake, go do something else. Nothing about meshtastic is worth this much heartache, I promise you.
I spent over 100k sats on 2 pieces of landfill trash
Was this money that would have otherwise been spent on psychiatric meds?
No
Based on what OP says, is it better to go with Reticulum rather than Lora?
I'm still a project or two away from fiddling with Meshtastic.
No, OP is a clown
I'm looking into OpenMANET now, not sure about it yet. Leaving this reply early, in case I forget your reply by the time I'm done digging into it
You can also use Reticulum with LoRa, but I'm looking into using it without