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People of Lemmy, I dare you to name ONE billionaire that's done anything good.

2y 9mon ago by lemm.ee/u/Eventlesstew in asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Sure.

Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation will probably eradicate polio.

Before people jump on the bandwagon about how Gates is evil and problematic, that there are no virtuous billionaires, and a government or an NGO or an equivalent should have been the one to do it... I know. But the question was "name one billionaire that's done anything good," and I think it's pretty difficult to argue that eradicating polio isn't good.

On same tone, Warren Buffet.

He has also donated billions in the same charity and largely lives controversy free.

The company he’s synonymous with is very much not controversy free

Yeah, dude is asking the wrong question.

Bill gates is not curing polio, it's the doctors and scientists that are doing it.

Bill gates, also the guy who spent loads of time on epsteins island banging children. I guess it evens out /s

Source on that?

Pretty easy to find the connections on google. Try it. Start with his divorce and work backward. Just because you love him doesn’t mean he didn’t do bad things.

Ah, the classic 'Do your own research'

Ahh the classic dismissive “source?”

You do know Gates left day to day operations from Microsoft for like 20 years ago and his foundation has nothing to do with Microsoft?

However, one can posit that the Gates Foundation is creating a market for vaccines that aren't of interest in the industrialized nations.

I'm not sure that subsequent doses are going to be provided as generously as the first ones.

That's not how vaccines work. The illness is already there, it's not like people get sick after you introduce a vaccine into the system. So the "market" has always been there and every dose administered is great.

You don't understand my point.

  • Sick people receive vaccines for free or very cheap
  • Sick people gets hope of survival to disease, hope which wasn't previously available.
  • Sick people ask their governments to continue receiving vaccines.
  • People providing vacciones now are charging a lot more to said governments.
  • Profit (which was the whole point, and not any "humanitarian" notions.)

And the market wasn't there, because unless there's some way to create high demand and guaranteed payment in poor countries, there's no profit in said vaccines (or any medication, for that matter; do you see any multinational farmaceutical companies giving much thought to the creation of medicine to cure Chagas disease? And it's endemic in many areas of South America. But those are poor areas, so the is no profit there).

The problem with your argument is that the Gates foundation is a non-profit. They aren't trying to make a profit, they've burned through tens of billions of dollars in the past 20 years.

Are you arguing that countries should just let people die from polio rather than accept humanitarian aid or am I missing something?

Some More News went into detail on why the “non-profit” label, especially for billionaires’ charity funds, is bullshit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=69AtkAHkKEc

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=69AtkAHkKEc

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Sick people receive vaccines for free or very cheap

Awesome, most vaccines last years or even decades, Covid is an outlier because it mutates so rapidly. But "sick people" makes zero sense, you usually get the vaccine before you get sick. That's the entire point (except for rabies, where you straight up die if you don't get the vaccine quick enough).

Sick people gets hope of survival to disease, hope which wasn’t previously available.

Also great, they get a chance, instead of lifelong suffering or death.

Sick people ask their governments to continue receiving vaccines.

Why would they be sick if they got the vaccine? Makes zero sense. The ones asking at this point would be the unvaccinated. Like a mom wanting to vaccinate her kids, so they don't get a crippling disease later in life.

People providing vacciones now are charging a lot more to said governments.

And then the poor countries simply won't buy them. Because they straight up can't afford them. There is a reason they aren't buying vaccines right now: No money. So if they try to charge a lot of money no one will buy and we'll end up with the current state (just with thousands more who are immune against the disease, which is still an upside).

Profit (which was the whole point, and not any “humanitarian” notions.)

You can't suck blood from a stone, there is no money, so no profit.

Every single vaccine dose that goes to poor countries is awesome. That's it. The alternative to getting the vaccine is to catch the disease unprepared and suffer lifelong complications (or straight up die). There is no upside to not delivering vaccines.

Are you confusing vaccines with medication? For example the Polio vaccine lasts for 10+ years, "sick people" are not repeat customers for vaccines. The only time you have repeat customers is when you are still applying the vaccine (for example Polio needs 5 doses, but then you're good).

This is fundamentally incoherent, vaccines are less profitable than treatments / therapies

I thought the foundation's shady capitalist goals were pretty well known, not sure why you're downvoted. They are against releasing patent on the covid vaccine, for example, because their goal is for people to profit from it

Probably they believed the philanthropist act. Or they think the the US way of life is the only way.

The point of eradication is that once a disease is gone, you don't need to vaccinate against it any more. You've probably never been vaccinated against smallpox, for example.

Actually, I have been. But good for you for trying to guess my age and failing, buddy.

Doesn't really affect my point.

It's pretty easy to come up with some things billionaires have done that are good. Bill Gates funding cures and prevention of diseases in the third world is one that comes to mind.

Now, if we're talking about finding an example of a billionaire whose life is on balance a good thing for humanity...that's pretty much impossible.

A single good thing that a single billionaire has done? The Gates foundation fighting malaria. I think that's good.

Taxing them would do even more good.

Is the topic of the thread called “Should we tax billionaires” or was it “I dare you to name one good thing a billionaire has done”?

Tax what though? There's no profit to tax.

For sure

Sure but, considering they use only 5% of the money they have for all there "good" projects and invest the ither 95% in fossil fuels. The gates Foundation is really only a little good because the law forces them to use min of 5%, to stay tax exempt. So if they didn't have to, would they still do it? I doubt that.

Mark Cuban is a bit of a wall street asshole, but he’s created a drug company to slash the prices of generic drugs for Americans: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/24/1075344246/mark-cuban-pharmacy#:~:text=Billionaire%20investor%20and%20Dallas%20Mavericks,of%20its%20online%20pharmacy%20Wednesday.

For sure! I wanted to make sure someone chimed in on this. I forwarded it to an elderly hospital roommate who was extremely appreciative.

Didn't one of the Koch brothers die? That was pretty cool.

I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.

-quote

Yup rest in piss

The submarine dude that got rid of a few more in one go?

That voyage killed a kid too, can't really call it a good act overall

Suleman Dawood was the youngest passenger on board. He was 19 and therefore an adult capable of making his own decisions.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/23/europe/titan-submersible-victims-intl/index.html

That sounds an awful lot like "the boy refused to cross his powerful father, therefore he deserved to die"

There's nothing that indicates he was coerced.
My point is that people portray a father taking a 4 year old to his death. I'm just pointing out that he wasn't a child but an adult who chose to go on the trip.

Legally, yes, he was an adult. But compared to me he was a kid. I had not yet lived much at 19.

Kids dying in wars is also a tragedy

Wasn't anywhere close to being a billionaire.

I wish for an explanation pls.

The OceanGate sub that imploded on the way to the Titanic.

Paul Allen funded a bunch of scientific and medical research, as well as quite a few museums and other public works around Seattle. He was the largest private donor to the fight against Ebola in Africa.

Sergey Brin is a big Wikimedia contributor, as came out a few years back when their donor list leaked.

also you should check out his card

It's even got a watermark.

TRY GETTING A RESERVATION AT DORSIA NOW!!!

Most/all of them have done good things. A better question is are there any that have done enough good to outweigh the bad

Good acts do not make a good person. Plenty of billionaires have done good things, but they don't even come close to outweighing the bad.

I love a quote I read once in a thing about alignment. "If you fix twenty neighbor's roofs, you're Jimmy the Helpful Thatcher. But if you eat the neighbor's daughter, you're Jimmy the Cannibal, and no amount of additional carpentry assistance will change that."

Traditionally this joke is:

Bad Scottish Accent Engaged

I build 200 ships, do they call me Seamus the shipbuilder? Nae.

I paint 100 houses, do they call me Seamus the Housepainter? Nae.

But ye fuck one sheep...

A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.

True, and they generally get ample praise for the good. The bad has, unfortunately, rewarded them with their billions.

Yeah, the wording of OP's question is dumb for this reason. What person on this planet has done literally only evil things? A better question would be more like "What billionaire is genuinely a good person and why?" Personally the size of my list of "overall good" billionaires is a rounding error but at least the thread would be more interesting.

Also they just put money, they don't put ANY actual work.

You conveniently left out the definition of "good" so you can move the goalposts if you don't like the answers you get.

Elon Musk helped mastodon grow

Google "what s funny", bruv

I Googled "what's funny" and it showed me a Mr. Beast video, so now I don't trust you.

There’s a lot. In the late 1800s it started becoming something of a tradition for billionaires to move on to philanthropy after their retirement. J.D. Rockefeller was worth several hundred billion dollars in today’s money. He gave away close to 200 billion of it.

A more modern example that people have brought up is Bill Gates.

Yep, they are trying to buy a spot in heaven.

So they're ferengi, got it

This is probably a slightly misguided idea to go after them as bad people because as soon as they do do something "good" you leave the door open for people to think that perhaps on balance they're not so bad after all.

The problem of billionaires being billionaires is itself the chief complaint people should have. It doesn't matter if they're Mr Rogers and Santa Claus combined, because they can choose to be so entirely at will and can be selfish assholes too entirely at will. They can also be other things entirely, given they are actually human beings after all they can try to act on best intentions, but like all humans, with great ignorance or with flawed thinking. When you or I do that the consequences can be terrible, but mostly, we'd be unable to come close to the scale of impact these demi gods can leave in their wake, not to mention the "original sins" that allowed them to become billionaires in the first place leaving a legacy of nasty indirect consequences for society at large.

There's actually a lot of examples of billionaires philanthropy and as you likely expected to point out when people mentioned that, some of those acts hide less pure intention, but undoubtedly they probably really did do some good and that itself is enough to completely undermine your whole point that they never do anything good. The issue is that, with the sheer vast quantity of concentrated wealth and power they can wield, the society that supports them is bereft of a real voice in how it's resources are used. So much of the fruits of our labour end up closed off in private coffers and it undermines public institutions like democratic governments because while we may theoretically have a say in what they do, we legally have no say at all in how a billionaire spends his bucks (and I say his intentionally). They might say we oughtn't since it's their money and no one typically has a say in what the rest of us do with our money but as with most things, there's a point of extreme where this logic becomes perverse.

Can we as a society organize and innovate without billionaires? Even China changed their economy to make them possible.

Right now, writers are on strike. Hollywood workers could invest their time, make movies, and get paid afterwards. But instead, it takes people with money to do the funding.

How should big sums of money be managed? Bureaucrats work to a certain extend but hardly innovate. Which structure could ask a million people to invest a thousand dollars each and offer ethical profits?

Billionaires don't innovate, it's the engineers/scientists/workers in their payroll.

Engineers, scientists and workers need an environment that allows them to innovate. How can we create such an environment without billionaires? Somebody mentioned kickstarter. What is missing that small investors make billionaires irrelevant?

It boils down to abolishing private ownership of the means of production. The fruits of labour of society must belong to society, not just a handful of people that have been inheriting wealth generation after generation.

Does it have to be exclusive? Society right now can own means of production. Cooperatives, joined-stock cooperations or foundations could be used to hold ownership and the fruits of labor could be shared.

If the majority is not willing to organize labor right now, who could take over the role of billionaires without abusing their position of power?

Kickstarter

Before anyone jumps on me, billionaires suck, without exception, for reasons I don't really need to go into here, you've all heard them a million times over, and whatever good they do does not offset that in the slightest. None of them probably have been or will be a net positive influence in the world.

That said, you can probably pick out a few good things that any individual billionaire has done (and you can absolutely feel free to debate their motivations for doing those things, many of them I'm sure we're done for tax reasons, vanity, etc.)

Some of the old robber barons like Rockefeller and Carnegie (Carnegie was not technically a billionaire, but if you adjusted his wealth for inflation he would be the richest person today by a pretty comfortable margin) funded a lot of universities, libraries, etc.

Bill Gates has done some good work with vaccines despite his shitty business practices with Microsoft.

Musk is overall a shithead, I don't like him, I don't like his companies, I don't even like his vehicles. That said, I think it's pretty fair to say that Tesla has helped (though he is not solely responsible) to kick open the door for EVs to start gaining wider acceptance and adoption. And SpaceX is doing some exciting stuff, though again I dislike a lot of their methods, disagree with a few of their goals, don't like how they're run as a company, etc. But long-term I think we need to have our eyes to the stars, whether it's for settling on other worlds, mining asteroids, asteroid defense, or if I dare dream it, building a Dyson sphere, or just for scientific advancement for it's own sake, and unfortunately SpaceX is one of the major players in that field now.

Bezos hasn't done anything too flashy that comes to my mind, and like musk he is also a shithead that I dislike for pretty much the exact same reasons, excuse me for not repeating them, but he does have and donate to quite a few charities.

Again, none of that is enough to offset the shitty things they do, but I'd be surprised if you could find any very rich people who haven't at least donated to a handful of charities.

Whats with Bill Gates?

The question was about whether a billionaire had done anything good.

Agreed - he is somewhere between a shitty husband or a monster, but he definitely has helped rid the world of some bad diseases, and his charities continue to do quite a bit of good around the world.

In the old days, you could just pay the church for absolution; now, you have to rid the world of diseases. SMH

Inflation is everywhere nowadays. In my day you could get absolution for a nickel.

Thank you

Paywall, login popup shite. I hate websites like this.

That article is much ado about nothing. He knew Epstein and met him occasionally. So did every other billionaire and politician. Unlike some other of Epstein's associates, there's nothing to suggest Gates indulged or was even aware of Epstein's excesses.

Elon musk he is slowly destroying twitter

As Hedberg said, say what you will about Hitler, he did kill Hitler.

... slowly? ...😅

He sacrificed billions for the destruction of twitter. I can respect that. Now do Facebook

What, do you think they just sit around smoking cigars and laughing evilly all day? Its not that they dont do anything good, their evik acts just offset it.

Chuck Freeney. He basically invented "Duty Free" stores and became a billionaire in the process. Then decided he should die "broke" and created The Atlantic Philanthropies secretly staking it with a little over a third of his wealth. In 2020 he closed the organization because he had given away the vast majority of his net worth. Mostly as grants to universities all over the world. He also may have low-key helped fund the IRA.

He's still got enough to live comfortably, and I'm sure his family is set up nicely.

Funding one of the biggest terrorist organisations of the 20th century doesn't sound like a very good thing to do... Same goes for all the other Americans who gave them money without realising they were (are) pretty much universally hated across all Ireland - much like how most Muslims hate IS

I would imagine all the billionaires have done something good at least once.

And a hundred bad things because .

I dont know her name

Jeff bezos ex wife, who has donated a lot of money to charity

MacKenzie

Well, not to diss on giving to charity but two technical arguments against. One is, you are acting as an additional tax on the worker (the source of the surplus) and then redirecting that tax to charity. It's fine but the elected government has democratically selected priorities that they can rarely fund so it is better to just give it to the treasury. And 2, just don't collect this tax in the first place, allowing the worker to spend it on the local economy.

Chuck Feeney. He gave away everything to charities.

Edit: it was around 8bn.

So only good billionaire is someone who is not a billionaire.

In a sense, voluntarily choosing to not be a billionaire is the goodest thing a billionaire could do.

If they do it right before they die though, that makes it pretty dubious.

In spirit I agree with you, but I can imagine a scenario in which someone ended up with a group of people who aren't explicitly evil but do exploit employees and end up helping their "friend" who doesn't exploit people to become a billionaire, either to ease their own conscience or for any number of selfish reasons. The person ends up as a billionaire and doesn't get rid of it in their life for whatever reasons (people usually like to appease people they know personally)

It's mostly just a thought experiment, the existence of a good billionaire, but it's technically possible for sure, even if not actually possible.

It's interesting as a thought experiment because there's no real world example of this. Which I guess is the gotcha OP was going for, but kinda fumbled.

Arguably hoarding the wealth for yourself (and even your immediate family), never mind how you accumulated it, is still not "good". It's indirectly oppressive to collect a bunch of money, while many suffer, and say "noone else is touching this, it's mine".

Yeah I still find it hard to digest that someone with a conscience actually made that much money in the first place. I'd love to see how he arrived at this decision, and if he could convince others too.

Elon Must did pretty much destroy Twitter?

I have billions of Zimbabwe dollars and I picked up litter for 2 hours a few weeks ago. So there's at least one!

I believe all billionaires have done something good. I don't think that makes them good people due to the staggering amount of wealth they withhold from the population.

Doing good things, doesn't make you a good person. Donating millions is nothing when you have billions.

If I had to choose a specific, I'd say Bill Gates. I've never fact checked it but I've heard he set up multiple charities and donates for helping children, seems like a great thing to do.

Bill gates and Warren Buffet have both argued for higher taxes on the wealthy and have donated millions to solve social problems.

Have they donated to progressive politicians or made their donations to democrats contingent on changing tax policy? Words are wind.

Gabe Newell is the least shitty billionaire I can think of, I'm not sure what he does for philanthropy though but at least it doesn't seem like he tries to influence the country for his benefit.

Oh wow I've never really considered Gabe's wealth, he would be exceedingly wealthy, wouldn't he?

Google said he's worth just shy of 4 billion.

I love Valve, but I really don't understand why gamers give Steam so much praise. It is a closed platform filled with DRM on which you don't truely own a copy of the game (unlike gog), and on top of that they take a 30% cut of every sales and transactions which is enormous for small studios to pay. Support is poor and the algo/front page distribution of traffic and promotions is a black box.

Don't get me wrong, Gabe seems like a sensible human, and Steam is successful because it offered such a great service to players. But it's been almost 20years now since Steam, and I have not seen Valve slow down the greed. They don't need the money as this point. They don't need 30% of every game sale on PC. This is just as greedy as the other company people hate.

This query is counterproductively reductive. Every human alive, even the worst of them, has done at least one good thing. Many even do their bad things because they were misled to believe they were doing an overall good.

The point should be that it doesn't matter what good they've done, because the state of being a billionaire necessarily requires one to have done more net bad to the world than good. You could save a million lives by your own hand, but if you're a billionaire, it is a given that you have destroyed far more lives than that. No billionaire's heart was ever weighed by Anubis and judged worthy of the Field of Reeds.

All of them, without exception, end up as greasy streaks on the gleaming teeth of Ammit.

Not a modern "billionaire", but you can make an argument that Andrew Carnegie spent a lot of his fortune on things that weren't awful.

Carnegie is probably the "best" billionaire in modern history. You can't go to a town in America without seeing some park or public building that was built with his money. I wish more 1% actually followed the Gospel of Wealth.

Not just America - my home town in New Zealand had a Carnegie library. I live in Scotland now, where his birthplace is a museum. https://www.carnegiebirthplace.com/ His money is still funding various trusts in the UK.

ITT: people who can't understand the difference between doing something good and being good.

Of course there are plenty of billionaires who have done good things, and pointing out all the ways they are still a shit person doesn't change that. Shitty people occasionally do good things, even if for shitty reasons.

You haven't looked beyond the surface of Gates philanthropy. His involvement diverts focus away from critically acclaimedneeded work in these regions for his pet projects - the science doesn't dictate the focus, the whims of the billionaires do.

Philanthropy is just a tax break and PR move.

And a way of manipulating world politics.

David Koch died, which is a very good thing he did for humanity.

Bit of a gimme, though, isn't it?

is this a psyop? surely its a psyop

youd probably have a hard time naming one billionaire that hasnt done anything good

theyre still a shit thing to have, practically never got the money they have by being a good person and shouldnt exist in the same world as homeless people, starvation or massively underfunded public projects

I was looking for irl billionaires, but this is such a great comment.

It's not though. He hordes his billions, doesn't do anything to change the systemic issues that create the crime he fights and instead spends all of his time and money fighting the symptoms of the problem rather whilst ignoring the real issues

Canonically he does contribute to a lot of charities and organizations and such in addition to being Batman. There's got to be a bit of a 2-pronged approach, if he contributes everything to charities, there wouldn't be anything leftover to be Batman, and while building a better Gotham for tomorrow is the greater goal, they also need someone who can stop the joker today.

And in a city where crime and corruption is as deep-rooted as it is in Gotham, you need to be careful about where your money is going, because if you start throwing money at random charities there's a good chance that somewhere down the line a lot of it might end up getting funneled into Carmine Falcone's (or some other gangster) pockets. And even if the charity is totally on the up-and-up, if the crooks get wind of how much money is moving through there, they're going to try to worm their way in and get a slice of the pie. So unless you want to go all Ra's Al Ghul and burn Gotham to the ground and start again, Bruce would have to be very mindful of how much money he was giving where.

Or he just inherited billions and spent it trying to get revenge for the death of his parents while using some of his wealth to hide his selfish acts of useless vengeance. Batman kinda sucks in my opinion.

His foundations pioneered developments in medical research and were instrumental in the near-eradication of hookworm and yellow fever in the United States. John D. Rockefeller

Markus Persson made a pretty cool game you may have heard of.

He also started to go crazy after selling Mojang.

Sometimes I wonder if that came from the Money or if it would've happened anyways.

I suppose money sort of liberates you from social pressure.

You can shitpost and be multiple kinds of terrible from a different plane of existence with that amount of fuck you money.

In these comments: People who think someone can accumulate obscene personal wealth and then give a small percentage away makes them good. But if someone dares suggest taxing that obscene wealth they are a monster.

Not to defend billionaires, but this post sets an incredibly low bar. I imagine that all people, billionaires included, have done something good in their lives.

Very true.

I was just trying to draw attention to some of the comments that are defending them. You'd think from some in here that a little smidge of philanthropy in retirement makes it all okay that one person can hoarde enough personal wealth to feed millions.

Reread the title. The question has nothing to do with billionaires being good people.

Reread my comment. I'm commenting on the content of the comments.

Are we really seeing people say we shouldn't tax billionaires? I wouldn't say that. But this post is basically rage baiting. Like. Yeah. There definitely have been Billionaires who have given all their money away. Or at least the majority of it. They exist. I get why people think Billionaires shouldn't exist. I'm all for taxing them. I'm all for changing regulations to disallow such a large accumulation of wealth and then hoard it so it can't circulate and do what it's meant to do. But are we really suggesting that the majority of people don't think we should tax Billionaires?

Yes. Well, some saying we shouldn't tax billionaires more and others saying that the money is better off with one private individual setting up companies and charities, rather than leaving that to governmental entities.

To me, someone paying only ~25% tax when earning millions per year is obscene.

Jack Dorsey bought me lunch once.

Trick question.

The billionaires who do good don’t want their names attached to their deeds because that defeats the purpose. The point of altruism is you don’t want credit.

(Seriously there aren’t many, though, because if you’re hoarding money, you’re a horrible person.)

They've all done at least one good thing that's a insanely low bar that's very subjective. Name one that isn't more good than harm in the world? They don't exist.

Millburn Pennybags or Uncle Pennybags gave you $200 every time you passed go.

He owed society much more than that, do no.

The problem isn't a billionaire that's done anything good, the problem is a billionaire who has done more good things than bad.

Those don't exist.

There's no amount of good you can do to make up for the amount of exploitation you had to do in order to get to be a billionaire.

It doesn't mean that a billionaire can't do anything good. It just means the world would still be better off without them.

What if you make an app or a game and sell it for 2 Billions dollars?

What if you take a shit, turn around, and find 2 billion dollars in the toilet?

Easy, Bill Gates.

I'm not saying he's a good person, or that everything he does is good, but you asked me to name a billionaire that's done anything good, and Gates has done quite a few good things.

Mike Cannon-Brookes (co-founded Atlassian) has set up a 1.5b green fund to invest in green energy projects

MacKenzie Scott

She enabled Jeff's rise for far too long.

My two cents:

  1. The current problem is rather that relatively many rich people are trying to do good things. The vast amount of private donations and privately funded NGOs, etc., have a strong influence within traditional, often national, political and governmental processes. This has had good and bad consequences and has been done with good and not so good intentions. Even if all consequences were good, the question remains to what extent we object to the fact that the choices of where to put money have been made by individuals and not arrived at through democratic processes, which can also lead to good or bad consequences.

  2. It is unfortunate that "effective altruism" has become the trendy moral framework for many wealthy individuals, especially within Silicon Valley, to make decisions about where they put their money and how. Effective altruism is a questionable moral theory because it is primarily about the question of "how" to act and less about why. The theory suggests no underlying value system. As a result, it remains a values-free form of consequentialism, unlike, say, utilitarianism, a form of consequentialism that does propose an underlying value, namely happiness - and thus happiness maximization as a goal. Moreover, "effective" is a vague term, which also remains relatively free to fill in.

The free-fillability of effective altruism combined with the inherently individual choices of, well, individuals, currently creates friction between wealthy individuals and democratically elected bodies.

This is imho the current issue we need to think about, regardless of any "goodness" of consequences. Where do the responsibilities, rights, duties, freedoms and liabilities of wealthy individuals start, lie and end with respect to those of democratically elected governments, other representatives of the people, and, of course, 'regular' citizens.

Anything? That seems like an easy goal to score on. Maybe you mean "done good overall"?

What? They're greedy humans who are doing things that have terrible consequences out of selfishness, not mustache twirling cartoon villains out to destroy the world for destruction's sake. I'm sure every single billionaire in the world has done something good at some point. That doesn't justify the kind of wealth disparity that makes their existence possible though.

Do you mean net good (more good than bad) or is a good thing like "established public libraries" acceptable even if he also oppressed workers and stifled unions and bought government officials and stuff?

How many libraries is enough libraries to offset it though? That's the question. 5 libraries? Probably not. 10000 libraries? ...🤷

10 billion libraries? Now you're oppressing people in a whole new way. That's more than one library per person. Surely not scalable.

Well that's why I asked OP if this is "net" calculation (good - bad) or if just the good counts.

By my evaluation I don't think any billionaire (or equivalent using PPP calculations) has ever or could ever do enough "good" to overwrite the "bad" they have to do to accumulate that much wealth, unless they literally spend it all on improving people's lives including getting down in the trenches themselves.

Current Agha Khan founded the Agha Khan Development Network which has done a fair amount of good in the developing world.

Bill Gates. (Has donated money to charity and founded one himself).

Has donated money to his own charoty to aviod taxes and then did donations to manipulate world politics for his own agenda

There, FTFY

He donated money before having founded his charity.

Bruce Wayne.

Own the largest monopoly in Gotham City.

Hoard and trickle up all the wealth.

The severe income inequity foments criminal activity and mass discontent.

Waste the money on private military research.

Run around dressed as a bat beating people to a vegetative state, launching them into medical debt with the police's unofficial support.

The new movie actually addresses that by having his parents previously attempt to do "Gotham Renewal," but it collapses into a corrupt mob slush fund and doesn't actually help the disadvantaged at all. That's why he fights with his fists - because they will never collapse into greed like his parents' attempts at reform and reconstruction did.

Instead of tackling the systemic issues that cause the problems of gotham city (which he is directly responsible), he decides to beat people up. Kind of tells how shallow minded the writers are.

In the comics, the writers regularly show how he is directly involved with the Wayne foundation, which runs social service programs and provides aid for people who need it. More than once he has offered jobs at Waynetech to street thugs that are obviously just down on their luck and need a break.

This was brought up often in the 90s Animated Series as well as the Arkham games... unfortunately the movies rarely make time to show this. The Nolan movies tried, but it didn't come across very well.

The systemic issues in Gotham are regularly shown to be in spite of the Wayne family, rather than because of them. It's unrealistic, but hey, it's fiction

J.K. Rowling, amongst others, have given away so much money that they've lost their billionaire status.

Huh that is pretty nice... Wait did they give it away for some heinous TERF shit?

No, not that I'm aware of

Jeffrey Epstein, when he killed himself, probably.

Pretty sure he didn’t kill himself any more than Prince Andrew doesn’t sweat.

Thus ensuring Trump's compromat would not get revealed. Suuuure he killed himself...

Chuck Feeney out here just existing and you having the audacity to suggest that good billionaire's don't exist. 3.7 Billion dollars donated in his lifetime.

a good billionaire cannot possiblly exist. if they did they would donate enough money to lose the title of billionaire

He did.

ok cool :) although...wouldnt this not answer the original question ?

He became a billionaire. He gave away his wealth over the course of his lifetime. He meets the criteria of a billionaire and a person who has done something good. Other billionaires are having trouble due to the scale of giving away so much money and vetting who receives it. McKenzie Bezos became a billionaire when she split with Jeff Bezos. She then came under fire not for giving away money, but for not vetting who it was being given to. People who think giving away money is easy or doesn't require some hard work don't understand the scale they're talking about I think.

Like. Imagine Elon Musk trying to give away $144Billion. To a non-corrupt individual, entity, or charity. We can't even eliminate corruption completely in regular charities that only handle millions of dollars yearly. That's the equivalent of some countries'whole GDP. But we can't eliminate corruption in just about any country in the world.

If the goal is to do something good, it requires work. That's an important part to remember.

fair

Give me a billion dollars and I'll donate some to the ravioli foundation.

Batman

Kanye West made "Graduation".

That's not to excuse the gigantic list of awful things he said and did (especially recently), but finding ONE thing a bad person did isn't hard.

After realizing he never made a better album. Kind of cancels it out though...

I don't know about that, MBDTF was pretty good.

Which version the initial released one or one of the fifteenth edits he released afterwards?

For real it's better then life of pablo but that's really not saying much.

The amount of exploitation and destruction of the environment that it takes to accumulate 1 billion dollars can never be offset by any amount of “good” that is done by money. If I extract resources and a exploit a community and get a billion dollars, then turn around and give every cent back to that community, surplus value will still be lost.

Came to say essentially this but looking at the fact that one person having that much money with all the shit going on is absurd.

That one brought a couple friends and his billionaire son down and unalived together.

Probably unintentional, but that one moment saved the planet a lot of hurt down the line I'm sure.

Michael Kelly caused Blockbuster to go out of business.

Some of them have died already. That is good.

Double dog dare me?

Bill gates and Warren Buffet have both argued for higher taxes on the wealthy and have donated millions to solve social problems.

I don't know current ms ceo?

He still allows Windows to exploit people's data to the fullest

yea but he is better than the previous ones

Still massive, massive room for improvement. Still very much anticompetitive and uses M$' monopolistic position. Still looks for ways to squash competition. And still wants people locked in to Windows and their products. Case in point, I was hoping VS for Mac is a change of course, and will pave the way to VS for Linux, but I'm proven wrong once again.

Chuck Feeney

How about no? Stop deepthroating billionaires, please.

Tony Khan created AEW and seems to genuinely care about his employees. He put on a private plane this week so the wrestlers could attend the funeral of Bray Wyatt and still make it to Dynamite

All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one. Romans 3:12

You're right. There's no billionaire who has done good. But there's also no human who has done good either.

Elon Musk. Without him, electric cars wouldn't be the almost-mainstream thing they are today. We also would be a decade behind on space launch.

Tesla (which he did not start) sells luxury electric cars, exactly the opposite of "mainstream".

Now name everything bad Elon did!

JK Rowling donated so much money that she's no longer a billionaire!

Elon Musk. I know you guys hate him somehow but. HE DID build reusable rockets. HE DID build electric cars. HE DID restore Free Speech even though you guys somehow don't agree with that because people now can say anything they want and you can't live in your own little bubble without any criticism anymore (on twitter). And that's not what left wingers want lol.

His EMPLOYEES build reusable rockets. His EMPLOYEES built electric cars. Even if he participated in this process he would be on a supporting role. Similar to a janitor on spacex, a guy that maybe enables the real pros to do good stuff. (the janitor may actually be more important than musk tbh)

He did NOT restore free speech on twitter. Many activists a still being silenced every day. He gives their data to authoritarian goverments who have journalists executed. Free speech is about freedom from goverment retaliation and he actively aids goverments in suppressing free speech.

His employees built reusable rockets. His employees were not even the first to create electric cars, and he's not even the founder of Tesla. He did NOT restore free speech anywhere. People that were hating on him still got banned iirc (I might be wrong). All he did was create a payment service with his friend (PayPal), used the money to buy an electric car company (Tesla), hired people to build satellites and rockets for him (SpaceX), and decided to buy a dying social media company to revive it (Twitter), failing miserably in the process.

Link to prove Twitter failure:

https://en.shiftdelete.net/twitter-x-loses-over-30-of-users-in-two-months/

https://www.gizmochina.com/2023/09/10/twitter-downloads-dropped-30-post-rebranding-to-x/

Link for twitter bans (People that were sharing his location):

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/17/business/elon-musk-twitter-ban-reverse-conditions/index.html