On what specific episode does your favorite "I swear it eventually gets really good" television show actually start turning around?
21d 7m ago by lemmy.world/u/fireweed in asklemmy
My go-to example for this is Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Season one is overall quite rough, however s01e19 "Duet" (second-to-last episode of the season) is IMO the first episode that shows true glimmers of promise. In season two the series starts to find its footing, by season three it's proven itself to be Star Trek gold, and then the series manages to maintain its quality through to its seventh and final season.
Season 1 of DS9 was rough? Cries in TNG… 🤣
It is rough compared to the later stuff but, man, it got off to a WAY better start than TNG did… I mean, Riker had to grow a beard for the show to get good!
Sisko’s beard also improved DS9
He also had reverse Samson syndrome, had to lose his hair to gain power.
Very true!
IMO DS9's s1 is way worse than TNG's, but that might be because TNG has a nostalgia factor for me from watching random episodes as a kid, and so by the time I did a full start-to-finish watch-thru I already knew the characters well and understood that the series would get better, whereas I was an adult when I first watched DS9 and went into it completely blind (after watching the first two-parter episode I nearly cried, because I was on a mission to watch all of the 20th century Star Treks, and there were seven seasons of this to slog through!? And now it's my favorite Star Trek series of all time.)
I think you mean episode 18, that one is the second-to-last of the season.
And that is exactly the episode I was thinking of, too. I didn't know which episode number it was, I just remember when I was watching DS9, there was an episode with the filing clerk, and I thought, "Oh, this show is actually going to be great if it stays like this." I just looked it up on IMDB, and it's S1 E18.
Apparently it depends on whether you consider the series premiere as one episode or two; Wikipedia (which I used for reference) lists it as two separate episodes, providing a total s1 episode count of 20, vs imdb which lists it as one single episode, providing a total s1 episode count of 19. Memory Alpha lists the episode as s1e19, and I'm inclined to trust those nerds. At any rate I edited my comment to include the episode title for clarity.
Regardless, yeah, I think it's probably a turning point episode for a lot of folks, and it's the first of many war introspection episodes that help make the series timeless.
Oh, interesting. I'd go with Memory Alpha too, then. But yeah, definitely a pivot point in the series, and the first one that really took the post-war setting seriously.
Parks & Recs season one was pretty different from the rest of the show - not necessarly bad, just different, e.g. several popular characters didn't exist yet. TBH I don't remember when exactly they introduced substantial changes, but I think it was the start of season two.
I feel like season one was trying too hard to be The Office, and then in season two it sheds that to become its own entity. I've heard that the writers sincerely considered s1's less-than-stellar critical response and made changes to s2 accordingly (e.g. making Leslie Knope more likable and less dumb). It's definitely a "don't judge it until you've gotten at least part way through season two" series.
Most people say the start of Season 3 as Mark is off the show at the end of season 2 and Chris and Ben become full time characters, but the first Tammy episode is in season 2 so that’s my vote. It’s just too damn funny to pass over.
The Venezuela sister city episode season 2 episode 5 is where it showed its true potential.
The humor lands, the characters have some consistency, and the vibe is consistent with the rest of the show. Yes, it was firing on all cylinders with Ben and Chris, but this episode is where it showed its stuff.
If you disagree, right to jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. I have the best opinion… because of jail.
Disagree? Straight to jail.
Agree, but so strongly it seems rehearsed? Surprisingly, also jail.
We have the best agreements in the world, because of jail.
Parks & Recs is a very typical show that evolves from edgy comedy into feel-good romcom. American The Office did the same, Schitt's Creek did the same, Superstore did it. At this point I'm not even sure if it's by accident (the shows responding to what the audience wants) or if it's by design ("let's make typical show that goes from edgy to romcom").
New girl did it too
Its because writing jokes forever gets harder and harder with every new season
But any old chump can write the characters falling in love and having their goals come to fruition and blah blah
I think it's also because quirky characters get boring fast. So you can either keep making everyone crazier and crazier (like Veep or Archer) or you pivot into a romcom.
Archer was great for the "let's start of the rails and see how far we can get from them" factor
That's a crazy point. Huh. Yeah I can't think of any examples of that kind of show that doesn't besides the absolute unit that is Always Sunny.
Season 2, Episode 23 is the “real” start of the show IMHO. It’s the episode where Chris and Ben arrive, Mark takes a job somewhere else, and the gang celebrates April’s 21st birthday at the Snakehole Lounge. Also, most of the show’s eventual couples are also paired up in that episode - Leslie/Ben, Ann/Chris, April/Andy, and even Tom/Lucy.
Both Parks&Rec and Office were kinda rough in S1 and got significantly better is S2 I think.
i saw some clips of that show, went to watch it, and realised the rest of the epilodes were just padding around the clip-worthy stuff. it was so hollow.
I found that it had a lot of substance. Great show.
This is how I feel about it. I remember loving it when it was first airing. I did a rewatch a couple years back and couldn't stand it. Can't say I like a single character outside of Andy.
BoJack Horseman. I don't have an exact episode for you, but the first few seem to be mostly world building and introducing a few themes that will come back later. Later half of s1 is where it starts to get good, and with s2 the show "properly" starts.
Episode 8, The Telescope.
I can narrow it down to one line, too. When Herb tells BoJack, "I don't forgive you." It flouted the usual sitcom formula, and marked a turn to more complex characters and darker themes.
Years ago i saw someone do a breakdown of what you're talking about and if memory serves it's the Herb episode that changes the vibe of the show. Until that point bojack feels like every other crude comedy on air but from that point on it breaks the traditional format. Its the first time on screen, and possibly in bojacks whole life(outside of family issues), that he faces consequences for his actions that have a serious negative impact on him and the fix is out of his control. In the face of this truth he spirals into a world of indulgence and avoidance and we the viewer begin to see the impact that has on those around him.
I think the comedy and overall quality of the early episodes is pretty solid, making those not bad episodes per se but rather deceptive ones. I personally enjoyed how the series takes its time in settling into its drama, and suspect it was an intentional metaphor for how the surface glitz and glamour of Hollywood obscures its dark underbelly.
Hmmm, that would make another good asklemmy thread: series with deceptive beginnings that obscure their true genre...
Yeah, there are some solid jokes in the early episodes, such as the paparazzi being unable to blackmail Bojack, because he's too nihilistic, depressed, and numb to care.
And I also like the more subtle ones, such as Diane having one decent sibling, and he's literally the black sheep of the family.
Must have been after I lost interest. I had always heard great things, but only made it a few episodes in.
I tried the first episode and it just felt depressing, not funny at all. Never looked back.
It's depressing in a good way. It handles the telling of depression as a central theme really well. But holy fuck does "The View from Halfway Down" (towards the end of the series) really make it uncomfortable in this regard. Do not watch it unless you're prepared for an overload of self reflection and existential dread.
well it is about mental health disorders..handles it really well imo.
Which is why I appreciate this thread, knowing that it gets better will help me give it another chance.
The Good Place really takes off at the end of the first season.
Personally I consider The Good Place one of the rare shows that is solid all the way through without a single bad or weak episode, however the end of season one is certainly where it goes from great to fantastic.
For me, the twist at the end of season one retroactively makes the rest of season one better
alsimoneau figured it out? That's a new low...
Ted Danson's reaction to that scene is too perfect... That one hurts
No way. Episode one was a banger.
American Dad is a fantastically funny show, but season 1 is basically unwatchable. Season 2 is a mixed bag. I'd recommend people just start watching from season 3 onward and only check out the earlier episodes as a curiosity.
American Dad is so underrated. Seth McFarlane is very funny, but you can tell that Fox saw Family Guy taking off and basically took it away from him, and he knew there was no sense in fighting it. But he started American Dad, and that's where you can really see his comedy come through.
So many great episodes. In Country... Club is probably my all-time-favorite. So many others though, Irregarding Steve, The Abusive Terrestrial, The Vacation Goo, Spring Breakup, and Shallow Vows. And really anything with Roger
'In Country... Club' is the example episode I use to get people to try the show. It is so good and commits to hard to the premise.
We were kids, man!
I thought McFarlane had very little to do worth American dad, other than the voice, after the first few seasons?
Regardless it's amazing. It turned from a critique of Republicans to some surrealist nonsense, it's great.
I remember watching American Dad's premiere and being excited for the concept but disappointed by the execution. You can tell there's aspiration to be a good parody of the contemporary political climate in the first episode, but iirc it's undermined by its crassness.
The Orville also struggled to get its footing in the early episodes; maybe Seth MacFarlane just does better once his series gets established?
I think they struggled early on for different reasons.
American Dad was too laser focused on being a political satire show and I just don't think the writers were equipped to write a good political show. It just comes off as angry and with unlikable characters. Once it loosened up a little bit, having that political satire premise as a foundation gives the characters a baseline to work from and they all feel distinct because of it.
The Orville feels like Seth didn't want to make a comedy. It feels to me like he just wanted to make Star Trek, but because he's "a comedy guy" a lot of the humor, especially early on felt like it was put in to meet some expectation of Fox that a Seth show be a comedy.
I forgot the exact episode, but I felt The Expanse was pretty mediocre until one of the last episodes of S1. I stuck with it because I was told prior to starting that it takes a while to get going. I'm glad I stuck with it, as it's my favorite sci-fi show.
For me its' the opposite, it started strong (complex politics, realistic space travel) and by the end it turned into just another space opera about hardy space ship crew fighting space battles.
Damn, I watched the first two seasons before moving and never got around to finishing but those things were exactly what I was into. I thought the interplanetary politics were awesome
From what I understand there's a lot of material from the books that didn't make it into the show. I bet the politics were more extensive too.
The authors actually have cameos in the show. They were very involved in its conception and making. The books had a lot more details, little sub-stories, etc. The show made a few substantial changes, but IMHO they all made for better TV (like making Arwin a major character in Jackson's LotR).
Fun fact: the authors initially intended for The Expanse to be a table top game.
Expanse is a slow burn start. I personally think it was great from the start but will tell anyone to watch at least until E3 or 4 (episode called CQB). At that point if you don't want to keep watching it's likely not a good fit.
Yes absolutely 100%. That is my usual advice as well. If you get through episode 4 and you aren't completely fucking hooked you might as well shut off the tv and sit in the dark and question your life choices.
Yeah, I was about halfway through S1 and I was thinking "why do people rave about this show?"
Also glad I stuck with it.
Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Starts like the average random magical girl anime until episode 3, then suddenly deconstructs everything giving you an amazing whiplash. I had to beg a friend of mine to watch until ep3 because he absolutely could not stomach the first episode. He thanked me later
Madoka is like a blend of Sailor Moon, Made in Abyss and a drop of LSD for the artists
King of the Hill is pretty dry in the first season. It has some good jokes, sets up the premise, but it's hard to "get it". The humor is very dry, and to some I assume it's easy to take it as "It's some uptight white guy who likes his job I guess".
Texas City Twister is when all of a sudden the humor just made sense to me. Still very dry humor, but it was so funny. So many great jokes.
Sir if you're calling me a liar you better be holding something stronger than an umbrella. 9 iron ...Y'all have a nice day
I can't live in a beer can I can live in a trailer but I don't have a trailer because the trailer tipped over!
Speaking of Hell, if I wasn't so in control of my emotions I might be so inclined to suggest that's the sort of place making a.. a visit towards!
Fuel Filters?! Honey quick that jackass is buying all the fuel filters! I need a fuel filter what are they for I need one!
I love you! And Bobby! And Luanne! To a lesser extent!
All of these are 100% out of context, but it just hits everything that makes king of the hill funny. Everything is so tongue-in-cheek
I recently rewatched King of the Hill, and I definitely did not appreciate the humor when it originally aired. It is a truly funny - but definitely dry - show about a decent man and his family. He’s conservative, but he is not a hateful man. He wouldn’t like MAGA. He takes care of his neighbors like they’re family - including immigrants - and the community around him looks up to him as a leader.
I wasn’t super prepared for how much I would come to love the show now that I’ve watched it as a middle aged dude.
Mike Judge did a great job with the show, and I genuinely enjoyed the new season too.
Hank is an annoying boomer but he lives his values, which makes him endearing. There's an episode where he notices the tile in his bathroom is faded and says it was guaranteed for 20 years and its only been "what 17, 18 years? Where's that receipt?" That's an annoying and obnoxious boomerism. On the other hand, if Hank guaranteed something for 20 years, even as an unofficial offhand comment, and somebody called him on it, he'd go take care of it.
Same thing with tools. Many boomers pretend to have any idea what they are doing when really they don't have any tools or skills. Hank had enough tools and skills to teach an entire shop class in his garage.
He believes in the idealized idea of America. That means he works hard and to a high degree of craftsmanship and honesty. It also means he can get scammed and taken advantage of with his expectation that other people are doing the same.
While a lot of people like to point to Hank as a caricature of conservative values, I really feel like that misses the mark. Hank is a great example of someone who doesn't compromise morals for values. A big part of the show revolves around Hank being subject to things that sit far outside his limited world view. Each time he goes through an arch of emotions, initially reacting with the confusion and fear you'd expect from a middle aged white Christian man finding out that his wife's new friend is a prostitute or that his friend's dad is fabulously gay, before having a contemplative moment where he either talks openly with peggy before bed or works on something mechanical. He then ultimately recovers from the situation and while he may still feel uncomfortable with the topic he always resolves to approach it from a place of earnest understanding. He does not let his political, religious, or societal values trump his moral imperative to treat people with the respect they deserve and to help a person in need.
Watching in its entirety for the first time as an adult, I made the other common mistake in thinking hank was a bad character because despite being conservative coded he frequently makes what I recognized as being incredibly progressive and left leaning decisions. I couldn't decide if it was the writer's secret goal to try an reeducate the bigots of the right by tricking them into relating to a man who can be ok with drag queens. That is the common folly of trying to understand a creature while you stand beside the monster wearing its corpse as a disguise. Conservative doesn't mean what it used to, it doesn't mean anything. None of our political terms do. But King of the Hill came out when they still did mean something and was made by people who lived through time when it actually matched the definition of the word. Conservative used to mean Hank Hill. Conservative used to mean hating the idea of Walmart killing local businesses. It used to mean focusing on your community. It used to mean striving for a simple world, not fighting against anything that expands it. There is a lot that the show can teach us about political discourse but I honestly don't think anyone is ready to really learn it.
Well fucking said!
It's nice to see that show get more appreciation these days. I always loved it when I was young, thought it was hilarious, like the meme of Hank with the big can of WD-40 that won't open, but he's prepared for that and just pulls out the smaller WD-40 was representative of the whole show, not just a funny moment.
Like Dale, the character defined by his paranoia and lack of trust, not even considering his wife was so obviously cheating on him.
Or Boomhauer, by far the wisest character on the show once you learn to understand him, except no one on the show can, though Hank often pretends he understands and that Boomhauer just said what he wanted/needed to hear.
And the writing that respected its viewers. Jokes that just happen and then it moves on whether you notice them or not, like Luanne trying to do highlights for Connie but instead wrecked the hair she was highlighting and it came off with the cap. Only thing it shows you are Luanne seeing it, panicking for a moment and hiding the cap, followed up by one confused "isn't it supposed to be more noticeable than this?" (or something similar) and then it's never mentioned again.
It was as funny as South Park just way more subtle about it. Tbh I'm kinda surprised it lasted as long as it did with how many people didn't get it until later.
the meme of Hank with the big can of WD-40 that won’t open, but he’s prepared for that and just pulls out the smaller WD-40 was representative of the whole show
And he had the WD-40 to fix the squeak in the door of a place he was staying in on vacation. It wasn't even his house.
I think the premise is solid, and so rooted in his values has to come to terms with the world around him, and he slowly opens up to things that are outside his worldview. He may not understand them, he may be horrified, but he's always caring and open to admitting he was wrong.
RIP Brittany Murphy. Luanne was annoying at first but as soon as they let her spread her wings she took that character to incredible places.
I feel like her getting with Lucky and having a baby near the end was complete character assassination. I recall hearing the Fox pushed for certain things in the last couple of seasons and I suspect the push for her to get with Lucky, and Lucky becoming a reoccurring character was part of that.
In my mind, Luanne taking over Jack's barber shop was the end of her character arc in the show. She'd finally found her calling and become a success. (Then suddenly we never see that Barber shop again and she backslides into just being a one dimensional dummy, but now pregnant and with Lucky to be annoying with in every scene.)
The reboot is great, but she was definitely a missing piece
Every one I have forced to sit through the first 3 episodes of Red Dwarf has gone on to watch every episode and now incorporates quotes from the show in normal conversation.
That's because there are no bad episodes of Red Dwarf
Idk they had me from episode 1. Best episode though imo is tikka to ride
They're all dead
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. had to vamp for too long before "Turn, Turn, Turn" but it got better and better the loopier it got, and the farther from the canon universe. And yet it's worth watching the early eps because things are set in place that the show runners fulfill later. In some cases much much later, and in some very satisfying ways.
I loved the second half of season 1 of that show, but then I hated season 2 so much that I refused to watch any more of it.
You should try Season 3, see if you still hate it
Perhaps someday, I will introspect to find that the name Daisy Johnson no longer makes me break out in hives.
Letterkenny, I think it gets good around the end of season 1 or beginning of 2. You still have to watch the first episodes to get an idea of who everyone is and their relationships though. Might have to do with just how strange the characters are in this random small town in Canada. It's pretty tough at first, but once you get to the end of the first season, something clicks and the show becomes pretty hilarious.
I was hooked from the first episode
You should do a reverse one lol. For me that would be family guy: first few seasons are funny af then...a very steep drop
This is called "Jumping the Shark" after a Happy Days episode where The Fonz literally jumps a shark while water-skiing, and the show was mostly downhill in quality there and after.
The opposite, and an answer to OP's question is "Growing the Beard" due to Star Trek: The Next Generation's apparent increase in quality after Will Riker grew a beard.
Encounter At Farpoint was a fine pilot episode, and I'm tired of pretending its not.
Nice love the beard
For me, it was the Big Bang Theory. The first two seasons were great, third season was good, fourth season was kinda meh, and I stopped watching partway through the fifth season. From what I gathered, as the show gained popularity, they changed it from being a show for nerds, to being for "normal" people who know a nerd.
Characters strayed too far from who they were so that everyone would have their happily ever after.
Same for Game of Thrones
I remembered Game of Thrones being fun to watch but my memory severely downplayed the quality due to how the end went. I picked up Season 1 dirt-cheap at a thrift store and rewatched it. Gods, it was good then...
I wish I'd stopped watching The Walking Dead partway through season 5, whenever Rick and friends arrive at Alexandria, but before they go inside.
Sure, there's plenty of good episodes/moments afterward, but without spoiling anything, that's also when a lot of the show's bullshit really ramps up.
The Walking Dead was also the first thing that came to my mind. I think I eventually stopped in season 7-8 or something and never went back.
Recently I was thinking about rewatching the first season. Have you watched it again?
Oh, I go back to the beginning every now and again, usually for fitting background noise when I'm on a Project Zomboid kick.
I forget exactly when I'd stopped watching the first time, probably when the show made Negan's introduction into a cliffhanger. Or whenever Carl was killed off, but I forget exactly when.
Tried to push through to the Whisperers arc once though, but I made the mistake of getting invested in a new character after the time skip, someone I thought had a lot of interesting potential... and they were killed off to make the villains' introduction more "serious". I thought it was a huge waste. I don't have interest in finishing the show anymore, nor any of the spinoffs aside from Rick's miniseries.
Ok. I never saw any of the spinoffs because horror isn't really my genre if I am honest but I remember the first couple of seasons were quite good and interesting. Just wanted to go back and check how they aged, because I never saw them again. Definitely not going to watch the whole show, because after a while it is just more of the same thing and as you said the storylines just get more and more ridiculous.
Go watch the one with brett.Kavanaugh it's great
Succession really hit home for me when I realized that every single main character in the show is just awful. I kept trying and failing to find the one I should have sympathy for.
Huh. I never made it through season one because I just couldn't stand every character, and didn't want to keep spending time with them.
I loved it from Episode 1.
Not TV, but I've told people to skip the first two books in the Discworld series, Sir Terry doesn't really get into his stride till a little later, but book three is where his talent starts to shine.
Yeah, though even then there's a lot of growth. Comparing The Theif of Time, Thud, or I Shall Wear Midnight to Sourcery just feels unfair to the latter.
Or start with Small Gods, everyone who likes discworld likes Small Gods. It stands alone, it's clever, but has some of the early book style, and it's regularly referenced by the fans.
Technically a streaming series rather than a TV series, but the second campaign of Critical Role (Mighty Nein). I started watching the series after seeing how popular Critical Role was online and that Mighty Nein was recommended for CR beginners, but I really didn't get it at first; it seemed so boring and slow. Still I stuck with it (listening to it in the background while I did other stuff), and I remember there were two specific moments where I finally understood its popularity:
spoiler
episode 7 "Hush" when Nott kills the manticore baby (which was my first "holy shit they did what" moment), and episode 12 "Midnight Espionage" during the hospital heist (I could not stop laughing at the debacle and completely lost it at Nott's negative charisma roll). In other words, thanks Sam Riegel for making me a fan!
Sam Riegel is a national treasure and he must be protected at all costs.
It didn't help that the first campaign was already underway when the show started, and for a long time their audio was pretty terrible
I haven't seen campaign one (since I started with two), but I've heard it has a rough start. I'd be curious what episode people think campaign one started turning around on, since obviously Vox Machina became quite popular in its own right, even if Might Nein is the campaign that cinched CR's mainstream fame.
It is really good once they kicked that douchebag Orion out of the campaign. So start at episode 28 to avoid him, he made the show worse and was an asshole to everyone and makes the other players feel uncomfortable with his sexual remarks so you probably don't want to watch anything with him in it. I think at one point Laura/Vex does something in game and he literally said his character gets hard from it, Travis looked like he was ready to throw hands.
Campaign one is probably the funniest campaign and also the one I cried the most in. The ending is amazing and heart wrenching.
Jericho only lasted 29 episodes, and while I enjoyed them all (plus the graphic novels that continued the story), I will admit it had a shaky start.
It was a mid-2000s CBS show, so it had to appeal to a wide audience, the kind who'd tune in to CBS of all networks during primetime. The show's overall premise had me hooked, but some of the side plots and characters are... distracting, early on.
Most people agree that the show picks up steam partway through the first season, though I haven't seen a consensus about a particular episode. My pick though, episode 7, "Long Live the Mayor".
I came here to say Jericho, second last episode of S1.
Braking Bad, after 5th or 6th episode.
Season 2 was such a drag though. I love the Vince universe but I almost dropped it after spending months to get through S2. Then it actually got good and Better Call Saul is one of my favourite shows of all time now.
Took me a few times to get into BCS, even after loving Breaking Bad. Eventually, it did take the top spot between the two, but it's such a slow burn. Plus all the stuff with his brother just annoyed the hell out of me.
Michael McKean kept me on board. He played it so perfectly.
The Sopranos, when Anthony Jr. starts piecing together what he's a part of at Jackie's funeral.
When I switched from the One Piece Anime to the One Piece Manga. I am sorry, but the Toei adaptation is a fancy power point presentation. So. Many. Static. Shots.
I've heard One Pace is good, but I've never compared it to one piece
It's a very fair comparison :3
The newer arcs are good in that aspect. But the problem of outdated sound design persists.
I didn't watch a lot of the newer arcs, but I found Wano to suffer this exact problem, which was dissapointing. I had high hopes after they slightly modified the artstyle to look more traditional.
I meant after wano. I'm watching egghead and the animation is a lot more fluid. It looks plain at times, but the static shots have lessened
i see, might give egghead a shot myslef :3
Steins;Gate season 2. Almost at the end.
What happens at that moment onwards signifies everything prior and even elevates the previous season even more (which is crazy cuz Steins;Gate S1 es perfect as is).
You beat me to it, such a banging series! I found for myself and told others by episodes 12 of S1 (*if my memory serves right) is where it picks up.
Seriously?! I tried SO many times with this show, that everybody raved about. Ok, looks like I'm jumping back in.
Season 1's a decent candidate for this question in its own right; the parent comment is right that season 1 is excellent overall, but on first watch you potentially do kinda have to stick it out until episode 12.
Yep, this was me. I picked it up and put it down a couple times... then got to ep 12.
I don't know I can't get thru the first episode. Convince me
Dope, ill attempt again and report back at episode 5.
The Good Place gets good in the season 1 finale
It starts out pretty good. It's not like TNG or something where you'd say "No, start at season 3, and just don't watch Code Of Honor." The Good Place starts out watchable and fun, and then the season 1 finale has an "Oh SHIT!" moment and then you've gotta finish it.
Yeah, the thing about The Good Place is you can't just start at the episode where things get really good, you gotta see the buildup to it
And you'll watch season 1 again on your second watch, even though it has minimum Derek.
Prophecy Girl
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, season 1 of Buffy is pretty meh, but Prophecy Girl gives us the first example of what the series becomes, with the balance of humor and drama and horror.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure part 1 is good, not great. It has its moments. Part 2 is noticeably better, there's a reason a lot of fans suggest skipping part 1 and coming back for it later.
I think this explains why I couldn't get into it.
I'm more of a "it's an excellent game but it only gets going 5-8 hours in" guy, and the first game that comes to mind in this category is Persona 3 (all versions). I can't do TV shows unless they're heavy on the information load/words per minute (The Thick of it, for example), else my mind starts drifting away. 🙃
Bob's Burgers, Season 3.
Seasons 1 and 2 the seeds were there, but on the other hand they were trying to be yet another Adult-Swim style "edgy" show in the wake of Family Guy. Once that phase passed, the show found a real heart while the humor and storytelling grew up a bit. Now, it's been one of the most genuinely special things on television for a long time.
Black mirror Episode 2 lol
They never managed to recapture the horror of the first episode although a couple of times they got close. Netflix is not even trying though, black mirror used to be the only unbingeable show where you had to let each episode sit with you and think about how you feel about it. Now it's twee sci-fi with happy endings. I could just watch old star trek for that.
I haven't watched the latest season but Black Mirror put me off when it just straight up became horror. I don't enjoy the horror genre with the jump scares and the scary monster crap. I really enjoyed the episodes of Black Mirror that were psychological thrillers or dystopian, but somewhere Black Mirror lost it's way and leaned in to being blandly scary, not contemplatively scary.
After the first season: The Office
Late first season: Breaking bad maybe
First season on Parks and Rec is not good. Redid the concept and one character season 2 and was awesome season 3 onwards
Parks and rec has the same issue trailer park boys has.
Season 1 is absolutely pure to the format and is therefore technically superior, but the characters and situations you love dont materialise until later.
Parks and Rec does not follow the pattern you describe. Season 2 was a big format and tone switch.
Its been a while since I seen it, but they both try to be mockumentaries with talking to the cameraman for plot exposition, and then they both give up on any attempt at realism with it quite quickly right?
Unless im forgetting something crucial
P&R dropped one primary cast member in season 2 and rewrote the rest of the characters significantly. Changed personalities and shifted relationships, it was a big shift in tone and cast.
They scaled back a lot of inter-character drama, made all the characters more relatable, and made the depicted workplace more cohesive and less adversarial.
Gradual character development is totally normal, just like acquaintances take a while to turn into friends and later turn into really good friends. But that doesn't devalue the good times you have with acquaintanaces. I enjoyed Parks & Rec and Trailer Park Boys right from the start, and then they both got better.
Season 1 of the wire is definitely this. I tried to get a friend to watch it and we started with the pilot and I could tell he was like “this is so boring”. It’s definitely a slower show but when shit pops off it pops hard.
Of course it's The Office season 2. So, episode 7. Although Basketball (episode 6) is also pretty good, it's definitely more part of the more dreary realistic season 1 feeling.
I remember putting on Kevin can fuck himself, and being super bored and not sure wth was going on. What was I supposed to be watching here. I turned it off. Wasn't until I heard someone describing it's message, and I dived back in. Man that was a ride! Pure brilliance. I love that it ties up, too. It was never made to be a long run, they don't do that tired thing of teasing new concepts, to never answer them, because they were beating a dead horse. It's just bam, all in, all tied up. But so delicious.
Farscape Season 1, Episode 19, the one which introduces Scorpius. That said, you really do need to watch most of the preceding episodes or else nothing is going to make any frelling sense and you'll think you've gone fahrbot.
Now I'm imagining someone tuning in to Farscape for the first time on a Harvey episode, and trying to make any sense at all out of anything they were watching.
Farscape:
The first 4 episodes of the first season get progressively better, but it's when you hit episode 5 "PK Tech" girl that the show hits its stride. Sure there are weak episodes after 5, but overall the show just gets better the deeper you go.
Trailer Park Boys, EP2 or so.
Benidorm, EP3.
DragonBallZ Abridged used a lot, and I mean a lot of referencial humor in their earliest season, only really starting to make characters come into their own towards the end of season 1.
By the start of season 2 with the Namek saga, they'd largely nailed their characters personalities and ditched most of the references, and as a result, seasons 2 and 3 are much more fun to watch
It's not a show, and typically one would play that game of "never read this" fairly unironically. But the webcomic Homestuck starts off REALLY slow and takes a few hundred pages to really even become interesting. It was so long ago, but I'm guessing page 246 was when I started to legitimately be interested in it. And I would say it finally gets good at page 1149.
So why did I read 245 pages of a story I wasn't very much interested in? The music, pretty much. I had already known Toby Fox had worked on something called Homestuck because of the history behind Another Medium (YouTube), and then I encountered this track (YouTube) in the wild and decided to read it at least until I reached the page this music is from.
Also, if you look at it purely for the ratio, getting good 1/8 of the way through is a little better than standard.
Pleasantly surprised to see the track you linked wasn't megalomania but Beatdown instead! Homestuck's music is amazing but I always warm people, if you like the music and wanna know where it came from you're gonna have a lot of reading to do.
Invincible. Halfway through S1 it's like they fired all the original writers
If it doesn't happen by the third or fourth episode I'm out.
Better Call Saul, but I can't really pinpoint a specific episode. The show starts of so slow and boring but it keeps building and building and before you realize it, you're hooked. I didn't survive the first season the first time around, but I'm glad I gave it a second chance just in time for the final* season to unfold in real-time.
Most of Babylon 5's first season really feels like discount store-brand Star Trek substitute. The show really starts to get its feet under itself somewhere around A Voice in the Wilderness and the Season 1 finale Chrysalis is the episode for which the term "wham episode" was coined.
B5 has the unique problem that it's crap season 1 is kind of necessary homework for the rest of the show; it's one continuous story, but on first watch the first season doesn't feel like that because it's a bunch of stuff that happens that comes into play later. So unlike TNG you can't tell someone "just start at season 2." You have to sit through the first season.
Not a unique problem. Farscape has the same issue. Most of season 1 is kinda mediocre, but you need to watch it for the good stuff later to make sense.
I mostly disagree, I can see where you're coming from. Farscape has a lot of adventure of the week episodes that don't really matter...and they genuinely don't. Like I, E.T or Thank God It's Friday, Again. Those keep happening though, like Take The Stone in Season 2. Farscape occasionally makes episodes that are good sci-fi but not very good television.
Most of the way through Season 1, Scorpius is introduced. Crais' story has no froo froo symbolism, it's a simple tale of a man who hates a guy. Scorpius is much more interesting as an overall villain because 1. he has motivations beyond the main cast, 2. he's actually right and we'd be on his side if he wasn't such an apocalyptic shitbastard about everything and 3. Harvey is the best character on the show. The overall plot kinda doesn't exist until Scorpius shows up. But most of the season before it isn't mandatory homework. There's even an episode, I think it's the three parter Liars, Guns and Money, where they recruit a bunch of the enemies they met over the early episodes, and kill most of them off, they head off to a different region and a lot of the lore built up to then is discarded.
I was more thinking of it from a character relationships standpoint. If you drop season 1 you lose a lot of that character depth.
After the first season: The Office
Late first season: Breaking bad maybe
Hunterxhunter, when the exam arc finishes
Exam arc my goat bruh
Its great but for non shonen enjoyers, the ending of the exam is where the universe and characters really take off. Had multiple people that bounced off trust me and got through and love it now
Arrested developed starts well, ends on season 3 (season 4 and 5 dont exist, shut up) and gets more amazing every re-watch
If a show is not good I'm not watching it. It has exactly 1 episode to catch my attention. There are too many shows to waste time watching things I don't like.
That’s an absolutely crazy viewpoint to have lol.
It’s also uniquely positioned to set you up for mostly bad television, because many shows widely considered some of the best television ever made take a few episodes or even a full season before they really take off, but most shows I’ve seen that really nail episode one are more often than not downhill affairs that came about during the rise of streaming where they put all the effort into the beginning of the show to hook you and get you to binge it and then they don’t bother to put any effort into the back end.
100% disagree. The best shows I've seen would include for example Sopranos, The Wire, Veep, Archer, Mr Inbetween, Battlestar Galactica or Succession. All are the best because they are good from the first to the last episode and often evolve in unexpected ways. What you're thinking about are mediocre TV shows that start without good idea of what they are trying to do and pivot after couple of episodes. Those are not good shows in my opinion. They might become watchable with time but never become great. There's enough great shows out there not to waste time on watchable ones. The idea that there are only shows that put all effort into beginning and shows that get better with time is just silly. Shows like that definitely exists but there are many shows that are just great (or bad, or mediocre) throughout.
On the contrary, they’re considered the best of what TV has to offer. Breaking Bad, Star Trek TNG, DS9, The Office, Parks & Rec, The Expanse, The Wire, All have rough or slow starts that famously take at least several episodes to get going lol.
Except for The Wire (which doesn't have bad episodes) I didn't like any of those shows (TNG is decent). It's a matter of taste. Most people like different shows than I do. I've seen most of those shows till the end and for me they turn mediocre pretty fast. I know what types of shows I like and I really don't have to watch whole seasons to find out if I will enjoy the show or not. I'm not missing any great shows because for me great shows start strong.
From your list I'm judging you like shows that are popular. Many shows react to feedback from the audience and pivot after couple of episodes. For you those shows 'start slow'. For the the first, original episodes are the best. Once they turn into shows and all the other I lost interest.
They’re not shows I like they’re just widely considered some of the best TV shows ever made. Including The Wire which very famously takes a few episodes to get going. You also mentioned you like Archer which as we all know fell apart in later seasons so clearly you aren’t that concerned about consistent quality.
It sounds like you just aren’t a fan of good TV and have very niche tastes which is OK too.
Fair point. I'm definitely not a fan of what is widely considered good TV. I mostly dislike the shows are are considered "the best" like Breaking Bad or The Bear. Maybe it is specific to the types of shows I like but really good shows start strong because they are original and then keep instead of pivoting to the more common tastes.
(the last 1-2 seasons of Archer were not great but hey, they made amazing show for like 10 years straight. that's still great in my book).
I had to watch the Wire’s first episode 3 separate times before I had any motivation to continue on with it
Archer takes a huge nose-dive in quality, though. I found season 9 (Danger Island) practically unwatchable, as if they'd fired all their writers and hired a new team from temu, and haven't been able to continue to the end. (I felt bad for the voice actors, because they still bring it like always)
I liked it almost till the very end. Last two seasons are not that good. But as I said in another comment. It had a very long run and there's still a great show in there.