Why have we as a society just accepted the increasingly blinding bright lights of cars?
18d 21h ago by lemmy.world/u/TheReanuKeeves in nostupidquestions
I know I'm not the only one who feels like I'm getting visually assaulted everytime I drive at night. It was bad 10 years ago but now, it seems like headlight manufacturers have a deal with insurance companies and optometrists to make the lights as bright as possible. Is this ever going to stop or is there some kind of race in the headlight industry to see who can reproduce the power of the sun first?
In Canada, the federal government just put out a nationwide poll for input on this exact subject, as it’s coming near to the time to review the related legislation. It’s very possible that some of the headlight implementations currently on the road will soon be illegal nationwide.
Thank god, I've been sick of this shit for over a decade. I don't know who would vote against dimmer lights. Do you have a link for this poll?
The poll closed 20 April: https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/consultations/canadian-experience-vehicle-headlights-glare-night
I seem to recall it opened in February. There were lots of news articles on Lemmy about it at the time.
In regional areas the extra light at night is genuinely helpful.
However, thats on unlit roads with so little traffic that you only see an oncoming car once every 5 or 10 minutes.
On roads with more traffic theyre just not necessary because there aren't any animals or other obstacles.
In regional areas the extra light at night is genuinely helpful.
Bro, that's what the high beams are for.
The current situation is the normal (low beam) headlights on some "newer" cars are so bright, I could turn of my headlights at night and the car behind me gives enough light for me to see without a problem.
Oh I thought thats what everyone was complaining about.
Everyone here has after market LED light bars or spot lights. Factory lights and evern high beams are no big thing but light bars have the fire of a thousand suns.
Trucks with 3 sets of LED lights blinding me all the time
We haven't. Many states have new laws on the books about this issue, and others on the horizon. The issue is that they approved at one point, so there will most likely be a grandfather clause for existing ones on the road because you can't force car manufacturers to go back and recall all these things to be retroactively compliant with a new law at cost to them. Not how laws work.
You can ban the sale of super high power bulbs, though. all of the bright headlamps fail (even LEDs, eventually…) and they simply get replaced with compliant bulbs.
It is less about the output in lumens of the lamp, but more about the angle and color temperature.
In most cars, the difference between regular headlight operation and "brights" has nothing to do with the output, it's about the angle of the beams. Of course, when you angle the headlights up so you can see farther down the road, now you also point them at oncoming drivers eyes.
The scourge of "blue" headlights amplifies the problem. They're no brighter, but they are more uncomfortable to stare down.
In most cars, there are a variety of ways to fine-tune the angle of the beams with often little more than a screwdriver. The problem is that most people have no idea that they need to be adjusted. This is why regular inspections are important as well as some sort of standards that can be applied across a wide variety of cars.
The reality is that correcting poor angle on headlights is a trivial task, should only take a few moments. Additionally, most modern headlight systems are active and can adjust the angle by pointing the lamp down or using shutters or individual LEDs to change the angle or beam pattern. Eventually, this will just be an irritating thing of the past, but it will take a number of years before every GM truck and SUV is off the road as well as a lot of current Hyundai/Kia products (anecdotally observed by me to be the worst offenders).
LED's generally outlast the car
Not the PCB flea-bay ones. Not ten minutes ago I discovered yet another 194 bulb fritzingTF out on my car that the previous owner had installed. This is the fifth one that has crapped out. I only notice because I rarely drive at night and my car looks like it’s spazzing out.
I work in auto parts. I processed warranty returns for about 5 years as my main task for a while. We didn't get many led bulb warranty/defective returns. Hella, Sylvania, Osram, Heliolite, and can't remember the other brand we typically sell. Those brands have very very few returns that weren't "we fucked up and ordered the wrong part"
Just stop buying cheap shitty bulbs from cheap shitty suppliers
That would be my recommendation as well. I would guess that the temu bulbs fail because they don’t seem to have any practical means of active cooling No heat sinks or other mode of heat dissipation. Couple that with likely bottom-shelf cob leds, and you are now piloting a seizure-mobile.
Myth. LEDs do not last. Led house bulbs also suck, and die all the time. Led headlight literally go out on 2 year old vehicles, ive seen it often, usually Chevy's if i recall.
The whole "led lasts forever" was a scam.
Which brand led bulbs are you buying, so I can avoid them? I have bulbs that I use daily when I'm at home, and a few are getting close to 15 years old at this point.
Feit
I wouldn’t ever buy from them, I had to wait months for them to answer a simple technical sales question about capability on one of their lights. Only got an answer because I sent another email after months and ruined some ones KPI lol. Them not answering within a week disqualified them
They can last forever, or you can push them too hard with too little cooling to save money. Almost all bulbs seem to do this.
So Chevy cant design a proper circut. Check.
Of course bad designs overheating the leds do lead to some cars models (and brands) burning out their LED's, but as a general statement its still true.
My Acura MDX has permanent LEDs, they cannot be changed without buying a complete new headlight assembly. I've been driving it for 11 years and have never had any of them fail. They will outlast the car.
Wasteful and terrible idea for repairability. I'll take my sealed beams and 1176 generic bulbs that are user serviceable. Have you seen the cost of those headlight assemblies ? Also, get in 1 small fender bender or a deer you're looking at maaaasive repair bills now.
Any fender bender means massive repairs. I've been replacing bulbs for over 30 years, it's nice to have great visibility and not having to worry about bulb replacement. I totally get your point, but it's a non-issue for me altogether. I've never had to replace them up to this point, and I'll never have to replace them in the future most likely.
I've driven it for so long at this point if I get in a fender bender it'll be totaled anyway. They're mathematically engineered to last between 41 and 68 years. That's one cost I'll never have to worry about.
Makes sense ! I just dont like non replaceable parts.
I 100% agree with you. I wish repairability was more of a thing so we could avoid more environmental waste, among other things. It also feels nice to fix something yourself.
It gets worse when you combine super LED brights with matrix headlights that are marketed to "allow the high beams to remain on even with oncoming traffic".
The last part: it can work like that, with a transition period
Because consumer protection and regulation seems to have stopped being a real thing after Reagan. Since then everything good has been legacy agencies patching at the edges where they had authority (all gone now thanks to the Supreme Court - see Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo).
Buckle up. It's only going to get worse.
(This is extra ironic because buckling up is only even a thing because of consumer protections. So I guess get ready to be thrown through a windshield.)
its just so american to only think in a timeline of presidents :) always gets me
i guess adaptive headlights were also invented by reagan
My apologies.
Deregulation happened completely randomly in a vacuum like a decaying lump of a radioactive element with no cause.
In all seriousness though... yes, ALL changes happen in a sea of social, economic, and political factors, but someone pulls the trigger, and it's fair to point at the gunman.
Adaptive headlights only recently became legal in the US.
That's because a significant amount of the regulatory agency leadership is appointed by the executive and follows their policy priorities?
Your overlord's president is also your president
Because (particularly in the US) people have the attitude of "I know that it's going to be shit for other people, but it makes me feel a little better about things, so I'm going to do it anyway"
That's a very complex thought process. Let me unveil the real reason:
"whoah that's cool"
That's it. If someone made a pan-nuclear LED with the same brightness as the surface of an entire white dwarf, people would buy it. That's where the thinking ends. Where the light ends up, other people, etc.. Who cares?
"Other people exist?"
Its (like many things) mostly the us's fault. A slide away from rules into vibe based everything.
I remember a long time ago when I was first getting my license you had to pass a headlight test where you parked in a spot and there where painted lines on a wall for both high and low beams. It was how you adjusted your lights and was common in Canada. Now no one even knows what I am talking about. The rules are still there but no one enforces them and most forgot they can even adjust their lights (not sure new cars and trucks can be anymore).
Manufacturers in North America are now putting their lights so high up on vehicles and use such bright piercing lights on everything that night driving has become a nightmare. The answer to getting blinded is now to out blind others, its madness.
I love that people are asking me if I have some kind of visual deficiency when the phenomenon of blinding lights is so common that it's in the simpsons from 27 years ago lol
Its gotten to a point that seems impossible, just full clown world. Its gotten to the point that my favorite car to drive at night is my Fiero, because I am so low I am below most of the blinding lights.
And those are "only" halogen. It's gotten much worse since then. Like you said, a sort of arms race.
I mean they also say "high intensity" which implies HIDs rather than halogens to me, and those require a clear cutoff unlike halogens/incandescents.
It's also common with European cars, which are much lower and yet have increasingly bright (and bluer?) lights.
The brightness is an issue, but the placement and angle are the bigger problem. Its the slippery slope of following american trends. Years ago Mercedes Benz (I think) put out a car that used IR light and a heads up screen (no visible headlights, just running lights) showing the driver the night landscape without needing to blind everyone. It was banned in the states, no real reason why but the idea went dead.
Was it banned in other countries too, or is there some other reason it isn't used?
Cost, probably
Mercedes put it in the S-Class, their flagship. They can afford fancy extras there.
Makes sense.
Not sure, but the tech is old and tested (almost all cold war era things used IR lights). The issue is I think they can sell the super terrible bright lights as "safety" features. And a lot of consumer trends are american based and just forced on the world.
A German auto company isn't going to pull a safety feature from the EU, South American, and Asian markets just because it's banned in the US.
No but they will not also pursue one that is not allowed in the us market as hard. But then again times are a changin.
I think you're over estimating the amount of influence the US auto market has had.
*had
And it was eminence. But maybe with their fall we can get cool IR cars again.
Are you correcting my post or yours? I was speaking in the past tense.
Oh no, just agreeing on the tense. Hope that it stays that way.
I'm still not sure we're in agreement, but maybe we are? I'm saying the US auto market has never had enough influence to block a cost-effective safety feature from appearing on foreign markets. Another person pointed out that the IR HUD was used on a luxury car and the high cost probably prevented its widespread use.
It did appear, but never went main stream. The cost was high, but like projector bulbs if mainstream produced the cost would come down.
Of course the cost would come down (slightly) if a new tech goes mainstream, but you don't think an IR HUD could become as cheap as regular headlights, do you?
I do, they are not really much different from what is put in cars today. HUD? We put screens on everything, IR? its just a bulb type. IR cameras? Its a camera.
There's a lot more that goes into to than you think. A camera and HUD will never be as cheap as a bulb and a reflector.
There is alot more that goes into those projector and LED headlights then you think then. They have not been a bulb and reflector only in 30 years or so. If they where still just a bulb and reflector we would not all be talking about having to face the fucking sun itself everytime we drive at night.
That's not quite right. Projectors make headlights less blinding. It would be worse if we still used basic reflectors. Also, not all vehicles use expensive LED headlights.
Back to your original argument: you aren't saying you think an IR HUD would be less complicated than a cheap halogen bulb in a projector, are you? Because that would be rediculous.
It was banned in the states
UV scare. They had to use UV lights to make it work. But they weren't on the same wavelength as say a tanning bed but people made a noise about it anyways.
No IR not UV. Not the same wavelength UV and IR are on the opposite sides of the visual spectrum.
This is so cool…I wish this would have taken off. I had to find some videos to see what you were talking about in action so I’m sharing here:
https://youtube.com/shorts/pxUod6Sx5w8
https://youtube.com/shorts/sg0pG0V3JIE
This third one in rain is wild:
It is proven tech! It was used in WW2 for shits sake!
Without actual headlights I'm certain someone would pull out in front of you, people are dumb
Running lights are a thing, and I see enough people driving with only them at night now.
This is a US and Canada problem. This is basically a non-issue in the rest of the world.
There are two standards for headlights, one established by the UN that applies to 99% of countries. Whereas the US and Canada have the other standard that is far worse for glare.
The global standard has strict rules on glare, requiring a sharp cutoff line at the top of the beam. The american regulations do not have this. American regulations do not account for headlight height off the ground, defining alignment purely with angles. An SUV or pickup with its headlights mounted above your eyeline can legslly shine the fullest part of its lights directly into your eyes at all times. In contrast, the international regulations account for height, and require tall vehicles to incline their headlights further downward to avoid dazzling other drivers.
This problem can be solved for new cars instantly by switching to the international standard. The auto industry is international. They sell in markets with the global standard and could switch their headlights immediately after a change in the law. This is an easily solvable problem.
If you're saying that it's not a problem in Europe then I can't imagine how bad it is in America. I get blinded by taller vehicles all the time on the road in Denmark. I also don't think most people's automatic high beams work correctly.
Bad like turning down the rear view mirror, covering the side view with my hand, and then asking a passenger to cover the other side view. Then still having a cabin full, and I mean evening reading under a tree full, of light.
Bad like deciding to pick one single line or marker, maybe a painted, solid white line that's right in front of my front passenger wheel, and concentrating on following just that one line for the whole duration that the truck is headed towards me in the other lane. Because I can't see anything if I'm just looking around. I need to concentrate on one thing to be able to decipher the image.
And my eyes are great otherwise. I have perfect color perception. I prefer to hike at night without any light, even if it's moonless. This shit is just out of control. The stuff coming from the factories is bad enough, but these magats who make their vehicles intentionally harmful to others in every way they can, really make driving extremely dangerous for everyone.
a painted, solid white line that's right in front of my front passenger wheel
Important technique
It's gotten so bad in the Netherlands, too. Especially with newer BMWs and Audis. Since both our countries don't make cars, this probably is true in all of Europe.
It is.
Totally agree. I've never even been to the American continent and I feel OP's question. I wrote a top-level comment further down.
Anyhow:
automatic high beams
This is a thing now?!
I shouldn't be surprised. The stretch of motorways I use every day has tunnels, and I noticed that many if not most newer cars' tail lights get brighter inside it. And I'm not imagining this. And it makes no sense when you think about it; if anything, it should be the other way 'round. It's just more computer-made gimmickry designed to rope in customers.
(Yes, lights need to be on also during daytime in this EU country.)
automatic high beams
This is a thing now?!
I think it is in the us. I dont really know if its every car but recent models of even inexpensive cars have it and it works pretty well
I’m all for this - people are idiots and the technology is generally good now
actually I’d go further and mandate active matrix headlights on every new car. People really are self-centered idiots and headlight glare is a real problem. Time for the technology nanny
Time for the technology nanny
We already have that - it's called vehicle inspection
Thank you for the informative text, but it is definitely a problem in the rest of the world too, at least in Europe. The front lights of cars have gotten too bright for urban settings, and perhaps there are just too many cars around, to the point I have read and heard dozens different people in recent years wondering if it's just their perception.
Driving a bicycle at night on the side of a road is impossible if you are not equipped as well with a sun in a box.
I don’t think this is true anymore. We have standards for headlights with much sharper cutoff and even allow active matrix headlights now. But that won’t help until it’s been true long enough for most cars to have this.
In addition to general asshatedness, there’s definitely a regulation issue.
- many states don’t do annual inspections Much less care about headlights
- how the eff is it legal to sell led headlight inserts that fit standard headlight fixtures, with a wink and a nod that “they’re not intended for headlights”
For me it's not the brightness, but the color temperature of the light that gets me. Why do we strictly regulate the color of turn signals and brake lights, but not headlights? Warm white should be mandated.
What can any of us do about anything? Everything sucks ass and I have no idea what to do. Should I talk to my literal neo nazi neighbors until I've somehow successfully re-educated them? That's fucking stupid and not possible. The second they turn around from our conversation, they see a television, in their own house, in all the restaurants, in every waiting room in the country, blaring FOX News.
Going over to a Facebook market place pickup, and seeing a dude with Fox just playing in the afternoon on a weekend. I was just like "you really choose to do this in your free time?". I felt nothing but genuine pity. And I got a pretty cool green enamel sink for free, so I wasn't about to say anything.
Also why did they make them cooler? Everything used to me more tinted red and now everything has gone to blue which is worse for your night vision.
Over here, ADRs (Australian design rules) stopped this problem before it began
maybe i dont have the perspective of other countries but some of the lighs im experiencing are well above acceptable (im guessing aftermarket). has there been fines for this from police or transport departments?
The police can issue "yellow stickers" for illegal modifications including non compliant headlight modifications.
If given one, the vehicle has to go for inspection.
It happens, however it's rare enough that it doesn't really stop people doing stupid shit like fitting the wrong bulbs in the wrong housing or fitting LEDs with the power of 10 suns and fucking binding everyone.
Yes, shops here can't sell non-ADR compliant headlights either
So the problem is just with people who individually import them that aren't compliant who haven't been seen by police yet
Ha! I wish it did. Certainly keeps it from getting too bad though.
The US has laws on it too. It's poorly aimed headlights that are the problem.
They would be non compliant, the ADR is pretty clear on that
Same reason we just accepted increasingly loud exhausts. Too many selfish idiots on the roads to enforce it effectively.
Same reason we accepted living further and further away from amenities. Cars are a self-reinforcing malady.
Not even the same. LEDs statistically are better for helping light up the roads during the night, and reducing lack of visibility crashes.
https://landline.media/blinded-by-the-light-are-newer-headlights-putting-drivers-at-risk/
No one said loud exhausts or LED lights* cause crashes. They are just annoying to other people. So I would say they are exactly the same.
*we're not talking about all LED lights here. We're talking about misaligned and excessively bright LED lights. I'm sure new, modern lights let drivers see better (that's why they are put in the new cars) but they don't have to blind other drivers to do that.
I must be taking crazy pills...the title and comment is all about how we just accept this and how manufacturers are racing to make lights as bright as the sun. No where in the comment of this post does it say misaligned.
I've read other articles about it the consensus is that the lights are not actually brighter:
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2024/oct/31/headlights-too-bright
"""Although headlights feel significantly brighter than they used to, Brannon notes that the maximum standards for light output set by the US transportation department’s NHTSA haven’t changed in decades.
Part of the issue, he says, is that the temperature of the light in headlight bulbs has changed.
Experts point out that more drivers are buying bigger cars. Because these cars are taller, their headlights are more likely to shine in the eyes of drivers of smaller cars.
Additionally, many vehicles on the road have misaligned headlights. Over time, the regular wear and tear of driving can jostle headlights out of alignment, meaning the brightest part of the light ends up illuminating areas it’s not supposed to – say, right into an oncoming driver’s eyes."""
And this is also my experience. I see a lot of cars with LED lights but few cars in on the roads blind me and when they do they are clearly shining right in my eyes. In Europe huge cars are still not that popular so I'm guessing it's mostly misalignment, people driving with long beams on or some custom lights that are way brighter than the norm. I have no idea if most people don't know that they are blinding others or if they don't care.
Some people are are more sensitive to sharper LED lights and they have bigger problems when driving at night now. In that case properly aligned LED lights are better (and safer) for some, and worst for others.
It seems most people who have issues with the new lights already have vision issues to begin with and would have the same issue with the gold/yellow halogen lights anyways but probably don't remember. As I can damn near look at the new LEDs and do not get blinded at all by them but the old lights if the vehicle forgot to turn off their brights.
I have much less problem with yellow headlights, and most people mentioning color temp in this thread are expressing as much.
My bike has a yellow headlight and white high beam, which makes it very obvious if I'm flashing someone as opposed to the changes in intensity some headlights have when the reflector is angular.
That's not what we're talking about, did you read the title???
It really is, the OP is asking why there isn't more regulation to stop companies from swapping to the LEDs, and the statistics say that there doesn't need to be because they're safer.
This is like asking why they don't regulate 3 point seatbelts cause it irritates some peoples necks...and we should go back to lap belts.
It pisses me off to no end, but what the fuck can I do about it lol
I've often considered making an adjustable mirror with a servo on it mounted to the back of the car, so they can blind themselves and feel stupid
I've day dreamed of just wrapping my car in retroreflective vinyl.
I just turn on back fog lights. these are like high beams in a night without fog.
There's a strong temptation to wander my neighborhood with a thick piece of wood and "solve" my problem locally
It's fucking horrible even here in EU, where I would expect it to be better regulated. Can't imagine how bad it's in the US.
I've even seen multiple posts on local subreddits about people buying SUV/crossovers and one of the main reason was being blinded by other SUVs.
Fucking horrible it should be checked at every MOT, and it sometimes is, but the newer vehicles are exempt from yearly MOTs for some stupid reason.
I didn't think about it a the time I bought might but that has been a plus to be fair my are stock. Only had a hand full of people putting on their brights back at me. What you going to do.
Adjust your lights to not blind other drivers?
Well that's no fun at all!
"Only a handful of people indicate to me that I'm being an asshole when I know I'm being an asshole. What are you going to do? I am helpless in this situation."
These comments make me glad I don't have to drive at night often.
I know they have gotten brighter over the years but that's not what's been the biggest issue for me. To me it's the fact these trucks keep getting taller, 3 feet ago it wasn't as bad because the lights were closer to the road, now the headlights on these trucks are damn near eye-level.
Yeah I don't understand why everyone needs a tank-sized SUV to drive their kids home from school. I'd love to get a small sedan sized truck with a normal car engine but the back is a truck bed, but those are long gone as an option in the states. When I was in Australia I saw these, they call them a ute.
We used to be a proper country.
The auto industry lobbied to deregulate headlights, and of course, they got what they wanted. Ostensibly, it was to allow for more aerodynamic designs. Of course, the real reason was to have a proprietary part that often needed replacement so they could charge hundreds of dollars directly for something that used to be cheap and standardized.
Ultimately, though, I blame the systematic dismantling of our public education. Basic values of citizenship used to be taught in public schools, and most kids grew up to be fairly decent. That's not as common anymore.
They lobbied to deregulate it because they were only allowed to use one specific design. That’s why until the Ford Taurus every car had the same round headlights.
We need laws against the current stupidity, but can you imagine the waste if we were still forced to use one specific incandescent bulb everywhere?
Switch to one specific LED bulb instead. (Or two! Your choice of circle or rectangle.)
There was actually four different standard designs. You had the rectangular lights which came as either a 4x6" quad configuration, or the larger 5x7"design with one light on each side. Then there was the 5 3/4" round lights which were also a quad configuration, and the 7" round lights with one on each side. Prior to 1975 there was only the round designs and prior to 1958 when the quad 5 3/4" round light configuration were allowed, the only legal headlight was the 7" round design, which itself dated back to 1939.
The reason for the standardization in 1939 was that similar to today, every car had different designs in different configurations, though the main problem then was finding replacement lights when they inevitably burned out or got damaged.
The first car with composite headlights (in the US) was actually the Ford Thunderbird, but the Taurus is one everyone noticed.
What's funny is that we've actually incorrectly regulated headlights in the US. It's the only example I can think of off the top of my head where deregulation might help.
We've banned euro-style dynamic lights that can carve out dim spots for oncoming traffic on the fly.
(Of course this doesn't preclude other additional regulation that we do need about angle and things of that nature.)
Either that changed or at least one brand has a waiver. Mine does that. It’s really cool driving with my high beams on but watching the dark spot follow the oncoming traffic. It’s also interesting driving with those same automatics high beams through town yet have so many dark spots it’s practically like only having running lights. It’s a fantastic feature
It clearly functions as intended, although the data geek in me wants to run experiments to verify it’s effective
In the USA, the lack of proper technical inspections and adjustable headlight beams, is a problem with raised vehicles. WTF, riding a motorcycle against a raised POS Bro Dozer, with multiple light bars, is the closest thing to a blinding UFO encounter. One cannot see jack shit! In Europe, that pile of rolling bolts would not be allowed on the public roads.
This one time riding my motorcycle, the days adventures ran a little longer than anticipated. As night fell so did the temperatures. Coming down the mountain a 4Runner or Tacoma was behind me with their high beams on. The lights were so bright I could feel them on my back. I folded in my mirrors and accepted the free heat.
I have light sensitivity, the new lights cause physical pain. I completely stopped driving at night because of them and sometimes have to wear sunglasses at night as a passenger. They're hell
We as a society just accept everything. It's what we were trained to do. We get mad and make posts like this one, then go back to our daily lives, having changed little to nothing about our behavior or the behavior of others. It's not necessarily our fault - it's difficult for one person to make a real change, but that's just the reality of our society.
But I'm here, commenting! I'm doing my part!
I bought glasses for this very reason. "Night vision" glasses. While the lights are still bright your eyes recover quickly.
Do these work? I’m thinking of getting them.
I wear prescription glasses they need to fit with so trying them is a much bigger investment
Polarized lenses, but with a yellow tint instead of black. They work nicely in my experience.
I've seen them for sale at truck stops, some with extra-large frames so they'd fit over your prescription lenses.
In my experience they help, but they don't totally fix the problem. I'd still rather have them than not, though. I use fitovers.
I’ll look for that brand. I haven’t had any luck with sunglasses that are supposed to “fit over”, but have been using magnetic clipons sized to fit
Oh, the brand on mine is "Solar Shield," fitover is just a category. I've also used some of the "Cocoons," but those are mostly orange sleep hygiene glasses. Solar Shield are cheaper but I don't think they make orange ones. Clipons do also work for night driving, I have a pair of those too.
It's all part of The Shittening
Here's my take:
There used to be a time when headlights really did not penetrate the night as much as they should, esp. with increasing speeds.
Making them brighter was reasonable. So they invented Halogen lights. But at some point the whole thing ran away I suppose, making them ever brighter became a selling point.
Add to that the SUV effect: "most importantly, me and my loved ones are safe in this rolling fortress", you can see how we got here.
I used to drive a very, very old car. Now there's a law in Germany that allows older cars to keep on running the way they used to even if the same aspects would be illegal in a newer car. This car did not even have Halogen lights. I had trouble seeing, every time another car passed me on the road. The difference in brightness was - well, blinding. It was legit dangerous.
I believe the brightness of Halogen lights is totally sufficient.
Add to that the tone. Most LEDs are blueish which feels worse for human eyes. Regular lightbulbs are yellowish.
I sometimes borrow my dad's truck, a '93 ranger, when my car is in the shop or I need to move something big
And the headlights on that thing are terrible, after driving around in more modern vehicles it feels like they barely light up the road in front of you. It's actually almost a little scary to drive at night sometimes.
It does have halogen bulbs, not significantly different from the ones in my own car, but the way the reflectors and such are designed around those bulbs is clearly very different,.
Counterpoint: I drive a 98 chevy and I can see fine at night because my eyes are good unless someone is in the oncoming lane and their headlight spill washes out my vision. People that can't see adequately with old-style headlights simply should be legally restricted from night driving. (The same way vision-impaired people are restricted from all driving)
I'm sorry you can't see, but I can see great.
What if another lifted F750 with bright white Xenon headlights is coming in the other direction?
Highlander rules. The winner takes the losers headlights and adds them onto their monster truck.
This is the plot of Mortal Engines.
26% on rotten tomatoes but 4.5/5 on amazon? Well...I guess I may as well watch it...
We stop, get out, and kiss.
It's a game a chicken to see who looks up from their phone.
If I look up too quickly from my phone, I get more woozy from all the booze.
Hell I'd take Xenon lights over LED. Xenon have a more defined line at the edge of the beam whereas LED is more dispersed or scattered, so it's more blinding.
Wouldn't be so bad but some idiots can't figure out how to aim their newly lifted truck's lights downward and instead install a bunch of LED light bars to light up half the neighborhood!
I feel concerned about your shitty vision. You could pay me to fix that.
walking at night is kinda hard now because your eyes will adjust to the dark and then suddenly the brightest car ever drives by and then you just cant see
There's been a ton of coverage on this, not sure that it matters. The physics of car fired harpoons to attack other cars is eluding me, while I develop many patents on the matter
Because hurting people with your truck headlights is MANLY.
Probably because I used to complain about it a lot, and people like to do things that I complain about, specifically to torment me because they think it's funny, without giving any thought to the reasons why I was complaining about it in the first place...
Can you start complaining about some generous stranger suddenly putting 500 million in my bank account?
Damn it! I hate it when random strangers suddenly depost $500 million into TheReanuKeeves's bank account. It's the fucking worst!
How's that?
It's saturday so we may have to wait until monday for the transaction to go through. I will keep you updated.
If it's successful you can slip me my cut in the form of genuine pre-colonial silver coinage. I like how it feels in a sack dangling from my belt.
I've got something in a sack dangling from my belt for you.
Does it jingle and clink when you set it down?
They wobble to-and-fro. I can tie 'em in a knot, I can tie 'em in a bow. I can throw 'em o'er my shoulder like a continental soldier.
Best I can do is spanish dubloons inside a dried lion sack
I'll take the dubloons, but if they're cursed I swear to god I will haunt your soul for as long as mine is doomed to wander the space between the realms of the living and the dead!
Finally, I don't have to be alone anymore
A huge number of people are unaware that headlights must be aimed. Some are not adjusted by the manufacturer or dealer before sale (Tesla, Toyota). Sometimes a large enough pothole or going over a speed bump too fast will knock alignment off.
Couple this with American police driving primarily SUV's (higher up, less bothered) and no longer issuing "fix-it" tickets unless using headlights as an excuse to pull over minorities, and we wind up with tons of issues. Feed the prison system- Don't waste time making the roads safer!
Lawmakers are increasingly separated from those they are elected or appointed to represent by heightened economic status, and are not affected by issues that plague everyday citizens. No longer are they accountable to their constituents- Money drives their political aims.
As a frequent night driver, I often see people late at night using only the decorative running lights (because they don't understand the light controls?) or with one or both headlights aimed at the ground just a few feet ahead of their car from hitting a bump or a minor accident. Sometimes one or both headlights will be pointed too high. Other times, drivers have their brights on purposefully because their low beams are burned out, or perhaps for their own benefit.
It is a complex issue that I can see only getting worse in the future. Social consciousness needs to become a thing in America.
Calibrated headlights shouldn't impair vision too much. Laser (and matrix) headlights are becoming more mainstream too, those gets even brighter but directed. Do you have an astigmatism by chance? Is it aftermarket and modified headlights causing the issue? My pet peeve is lifted trucks running brights behind me. Could be 6 car length back and still light up my interior like a stadium
Poorly aimed headlights are the real killer. They might not even be brights, they're just aimed to the heavens because people don't know how to maintain their car.
Well obviously if its a big enough problem to be regulated its not imaginary, and only due to something like alignement
Conservative governments have spent 3 generations, the world over, convincing everyone that deregulation is always a good thing.
The adaptive headlights are perfectly capable of blocking out the blinding cold white light modern headlights have, they just don't use it in the US, and it's only partially in use in the EU.
It's absurd that they don't mandate it in LED and Laser headlights for both high and low beams
It's not just cars. Also super blinding lights on bicycles, aimed too high. And the worst of all: straight at your face aiming super blinding lights from fricking joggers on park roads that have public lighting!!
The majority of bike lights throw a circle/oval/flood pattern which means they have to be aimed high to be usable. It's just a flashlight at that point. It's easy to make a decent beam pattern but neither the manufacturers nor the buyers give a shit.
I point mine down so it illuminates the road in front of me, and slightly in the direction facing away from oncoming traffic. I also use the dimmest setting, and don't have it in blink mode unless it's foggy out.
That's how it should be! Thanks
It's on roads and paths with public lighting mostly! The bicycle front light is not for you to see things, it's for you to be seen by others. Aimed downwards in front of your bicycle is were it should be... Not up into other people's faces!
Nah SUV lights that automatically lower their lights waaaay to late are definitely the worst. Especially when they use their high beams in a 30 km/h zone like the one I live in. All just because idiot drivers couldn't give a fuck and let their car do everything for them automatically.
The bicycles with nor just the headlights, but the flashing white lights to dazzle your vision. Genius. "Let me be seen by blinding you." Right up there with motorcycles riding with their highbeam on. People cannot see you if you blind them.
The park is not an island. The rider risks his life elsewhere, and it's a hassle to keep turning the headlight on and off every fave miutes.
Just like with a car, a cyclist ought to be able to aim their headlight to not blind others
If you’re blinding me as a pedestrian in the park, you’re also blinding oncoming drivers on the road, potentially endangering yourself
Here in vietnam, probably half of cars and bikes have yellow headlights that don't mess with your night vision, then white brights.
Given that we also accepted the switch from being "personnel" to being "human resources", headlights seem like a fairly small detail.
Nothing better than having to cover my eyes at night because my retinas are being fucking burned out of my head.
There's been a few campaigns against this sort of thing: https://www.theringer.com/2024/12/03/tech/headlight-brightness-cars-accidents
I haven't accepted it. Speak for yourself
There was a government survey on this just a few weeks ago. Conveniently posted here so I filled it out. Did you?
The government is using Lemmy???
Probably not an official government use. Probably just someone who came across the survey somehow (government employee or not) and just decided to help out with Lemmy.
Edit: Here it is, I just found it again. 2 months ago: https://lemmy.ca/post/62141402
Don't people who set the rules also drive? "Wow, I can't see a damn thing. Maybe headlights are too bright?"
No, they get driven. The important people are driven around and everyone else can eat shit
There’s another way. Adaptive headlights can fix this: https://youtube.com/shorts/AgxVuXC0T44
You’re not wrong though. Even crappy headlights on taller vehicles seem much brighter to observers. My buddy’s 2005 RAM is proof. When we’re in it, I’d have better luck seeing with a flashlight, but when he’s driving behind my car, it’s like someone’s shining the bat signal into my rear window.
Also, don’t get me started on people who replace their bulbs with HID or LED bulbs but don’t spend the money on projector headlights. It’s infuriating.
EXACTYLLYY makes me so pissed. I'd like to smash every cadillac escalade headlight.
Because we decided we hated to have our vehicles inspected. If we still did that these people would get violations.
As someone with an astigmatism, I genuinely don't see the difference. All lights have annoying glare. You learn to deal with it, and see around them.
Politicians are a million years old and don't drive themselves.
Regulation.
It's very slow to change, and takes a lot of effort to make it happen.
See the thing is cars scare me and I don’t drive. Luckily my husband drives.
Look up Audi’s Matrix projection headlights. I really want to see more cars incorporating this technology.
Here you are lol
https://nightriderglasses.com/product/night-rider-glasses/
I was actually planning to make some of these out of safety glasses and some tinted film i had lying around
but that film doesn't seem to be lying around anywhere at the moment...
Well that's unfortunate. Also it's a bit dumb having to buy more stuff to keep track of in response to cars dick waving over how quickly their low beams can kill a vampire
capitalism ;)
Because lobbying and "market gods" worship and because "driving is for peasants"
For me it's the white lights, they are to bright, but they work extremely well and I'm glad I have them. But I hate that other people have them.
This probably sounds stupid, but I have a simple solution.
Headlights are aimed straight out in front of the driver-which unfortunately is also the oncoming driver's line of sight. Why not cross their aim of lights so driver aims towards passenger and vice versa.
This takes the drivers light which is directly blinding and aims away, then the passenger light is also slightly aimed more away. Still illuminates the whole front of the road and car, maybe better peripheral even. The only negative is right as they pass each other, the passenger light his the oncoming car, BUT should be way shorter exposure and more indirect so less blinding..
Idk, just my $.02
AFAIK headlights are supposed to be calibrated and low beams should point downward towards the road.
The problem is people with uncalibrated lights as well as those driving with high beams.
The last thing is that newer cars have sensors. When there are no lights facing you they put high beams automatically and then they lower them when sensing a car ahead. Sometimes the software fucks up and leaves the high beams.
Automated lights last about 2 years before the fucking sensors break and cost thousands to fix. Give me back my stomp switch 😁
Smh, more automated shit to break and be less for people to pay attention to and control...
And your oncoming side is even aimed a few degrees even lower to prevent blinding incoming traffic
feels like I'm getting visually assaulted everytime I drive at night.
That is only a problem in these shitty countries where they have neither any rules nor TÜV (and therefore technology remains in the last century)
Example of a modern car light:
That is not an example of modern car light, but Audis plans for a future car light that is not on the market yet.
That is not an example of modern car light
So, you wouldn't call it modern then?
Or not a car light?
I don't think modern is a synonym of future
It's not a car light yet.
And bikes. The cyclists who in broad summer cloudless noon daylight still find the need to strap a quasar to their handlebars baffles me. I feel like buying the brightest array of LEDs and walking around with a backpack filled with batteries and just clobbering these fucking idiots right in the retinas.
A number of e-bikes now come with built-in lights that are just on all the time, hence the reason why bikes that are all lit up in the middle of the day are starting to become common.
A lot of these lights have little or no adjustments either.
Worse: bikers with a glaring headlamp.
Sometimes it's a piercingly bright red taillight. It's noon in summer you fucknozzle, WE SEE YOU. We don't need to see you three time zones over. I wish I was physically capable of exerting great violence upon people because that's where we are as a society.
The mindset of these people aggravates me, they're in the same category as door hoggers: people who smack themselves in the way of bus, metro, or elevator exits... let people off first!
Geometry of lights is strictly controlled. It shouldn't be an issue (At least it isn't that much of an issue in EU). It's possible you have an eye accommodation issue too.
Bright lights are fine, just point them down. Although, you might have noticed that when you're going downhill or uphill the lights are more blinding.
I've proposed a polarization system where you would be able to see thing illuminated but not the bright lights that illuminate. There are many ways to make this work.
Tell us your idea.
FYI you're going to get absolutely shredded by technical responses about how light works.
So the basic premise is that LEDs on their own can make polarized light. So let's say for example that we make all car manufacturers produce cars that have their LEDs horizontally polarized. So they shoot light that is horizontally polarized. Then we force them to make their windshields be vertically polarized. That way, no matter how much luminous power comes out of everyone's car you won't be able to see it. It should probably be the other way around with lights making vertical and windshields blocking horizontally.
Ok but now, how do you actually see things? Well light is funny. When you hit objects with light polarized in one direction you'll get scattered light back which will contain some light that is correctly polarized to pass thru the windshield.
For this to work, you just need to standardized the polarization direction.
You could even wear polarized glasses if you're a pedestrian. The house at the end of the Culdesac can have their windows polarized too and so they wouldn't be blinded by every car coming thru.
Because it’s the sole responsibility of the owner to repair the car (and sometimes passengers) when it hits a wild animal, and brighter bulbs are an inexpensive preventative measure. And you really can’t replace people.
Other people complain about the bright lights, but they get real quiet when you say you hit a deer and now you have to pay hundreds you can’t afford to fix your car.
It’s the same with ad blockers. People say they cost websites money, but as soon as you get ransomware they say that’s on you, you should have used an ad blocker.
It’s a catch 22. Those who are proactive are painted as the problem by those who won’t help those who aren’t and wind up owing or paying more.
That’s what we gotta figure out. Otherwise we’ll all just keep talking past each other.
So basically what someone wrote above: "what's important is that me and my family and property are safe". Fantastic way to live in a society with other people.
Other people complain about the bright lights, but they get real quiet when you say you hit a deer and now you have to pay hundreds you can’t afford to fix your car.
What are you saying? Why would other people get quiet about what's bothering them because you have to repair your car? Why is that everybody else's problem? You are aware that you could slow down at night to avoid hitting wildlife, right? Blinding other innocent people at night is not "being proactive", and it's in no way morally comparable to ad blockers. The people being subjected to this aren't trying to harvest your data to make money on you.
This is why we’re in such a mess now. People have been trained that society sucks and it’s every man for themselves now.
So that's what I'm saying. People are talking past each other, no one is accomplishing anything.
And yes, the lives of my partner and kids is worth more than your inconvenience. I'm sure your partner and kids are worth more than my inconvenience. That's just how people are. Maybe you don't have kids, maybe you have elderly parents you care for. Maybe you're a lone wolf and you don't have anybody, but surely you recognise that there are other people with people they love and value over the convenience of others, so the point stands.
I don't like bright lights either. But I'm also not donating to some stranger's GoFundMe because he hit a deer being a nice guy who put your convenience over his safety, and now he's got a broken leg, smashed fender, thousands in hospital bills, and hundreds in auto repair bills. I'm a nice guy, but I got needs and I also got wants. Does that make me an arsehole? If so, then so be it. The question is, are you donating? You said "why is that everybody else's problem" implying it isn't yours. So you aren't, either. You put the blame on the guy for not driving slower. You're saying his safety is his problem. Okay, fine. Now you don't get to judge how he fixes that problem.
But don't get me wrong. It's the Internet, you can say what you want. But talk is cheap. Or as we said in the 1980s, "money talks and bullshit walks." All we're doing is walking in circles. I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. Therefore, the problem will not get solved, at least not between us. The silver lining there is that it is statistically unlikely that we will ever meet face to face, or on the road.
It is interesting, however, that you take the opposite position with ad blocking. True, they are not exactly the same thing, but it is a similar situation. And, like headlights, or slowing down, there are multiple solutions. But you passionately defend both sides of a similar argument when the subject changes. That should at least inform you that you are capable of reason, and that you can see that there are valid arguments on both sides. So, if nothing else, maybe you can at least appreciate that we will solve nothing by talking past each other. We're tilting at windmills.
There was one moderately useful comment when I made mine: someone mentioned adaptive headlights. What they failed to mention, likely because it would undermine their point, is the cost of adaptive headlights. Ars Technica recently (week or two ago, I'm not gonna go dig for it) had an article about adaptive headlights. They sound great. They sound like they are the solution. In short, you get extremely bright light when you need it. When you have oncoming traffic, you still get stupidly bright light, but a smart array of LEDs makes sure none are pointing at the oncoming driver. Everything around them is lit up like high noon, but the other driver isn't inconvenienced. That sounds awesome, but it's also prohibitively expensive. The good thing is, cars will have this standard in a decade or so. Just like things like power windows and locks, power steering, and automatic transmissions became standard, so too will this. Then people will look back and call us savages.
the lives of my partner and kids is worth more than your inconvenience.
But not worth more than your inconvenience or you'd just slow down when you can't see as well.