D'awww. You wet blankets...
6d 6h ago by slrpnk.net/u/Track_Shovel in microblogmemes from slrpnk.net
No no. If you read between the lines, they didn't explicitly say no. They only insinuated he hasn't met the criteria under international law yet... But they do acknowledge the assholery.
They only insinuated he hasn't met the criteria under international law yet
Hell, if you go COMPLETELY literal, they're not even necessarily saying THAT!
They COULD be saying that the Tates are legitimate targets for OTHER reasons (such as being in the enemy's army), just not for being assholes š
They're basically saying we just need to find a better reason and they'll do it
Wouldn't the clear line be actually taking up arms against Ukraine? If he does a publicity stunt at a Russian army training base, that's an evil and stupid thing to do, but it's not actually helping the military effort against Ukraine. Now, if they trained him as a FPV attack drone pilot, and then showed on camera him piloting drones targeting Ukrainian troops? That would probably make him a legitimate target. At least that's what I would think. But my thought would be that the line would be actually taking up arms in some form against Ukrainian troops or civilians.
I've heard from very credible sources they did in fact do this. They can't show it on camera, for obvious security reasons, but he has recently secretly been flying drones to strike targets for Russia.
Sure you did.
My aunt's neighbor has a brother that confirms this.
Source: I was that drone :3
Weren't they there for military training? So after basic training they should be a legitimat target, no?
Honestly even before finishing training. He's wearing the military uniform, training, and handling a weapon.
The US defined any male about 16 in Iraq as a combatant/legitimate target and the world didn't bat an eye. Tate exceeds this
He's wearing the military uniform
Any uniform is incomplete without the flag or coat of arms.
The US defined any male about 16 in Iraq as a combatant/legitimate target and the world didn't bat an eye.
That was still illegal.
So wait he's training with the enemy, holding a weapon, and not wearing a proper uniform?
That would classify him as a spy and subject him to prompt execution if captured wouldn't it?
The US defined
If you're using that as a justification, you're doing it wrong. Give me a quick count of their recent war crimes...?
The important part was how the rest of the world didn't care
Don't strike hin. Just the legitimate members of the Russian military doing the training. With a huge bomb. And tungsten pellets. But not him.
Ukraine displaying the moral high ground.
āIām condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone elseās future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know Iāll never see.ā
"I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there, any more than there is for you. Malcolm, I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."
My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my eagerness to fight, theyāve set me on a path from which there is no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down there was no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice?
Iām a a terrible example of what humanity could be. I live what I have to in the reality of what āhumanityā is right now while recognizing what we could be. Weāre an exceptional byproduct of the pressure our environment pushed us to.
In this case there's a lot more on the table though. If they'd start openly going after random civilians, that's throwing the international laws, deals whatever, in the trash and that doesn't lead to anything good. Ukraine's support depends a lot on rest of the Europe too, and most of those countries aren't willing to openly aid doing stuff like that, which could seriously hurt what Ukraine gets. Russia is already doing shitton of manipulation to get us europeans be against supporting Ukraine, so giving them more, easy ammo for that is idiotic
Remind me again how many random civilians have been killed in Ukraine by Russian missiles? How many Palestinian children have been shot in the face by the IDF? How many people in the US are either rounded up and disappeared or just gunned down by the cops daily? Your moral high ground and promises to āhold those responsible accountableā in some future trial that will lead to a sense of ājusticeā doesnāt mean shit to the people who are dead at the hands of aggressors who give no fucks about morality in the here and now. Every one of us that lets this go on daily because we follow the ārulesā our enemy disregards is as steeped in the blood of their victims as they are. They donāt require justification for their actions, they just take advantage of our hesitation and debates over whether we should meet them with equal force.
I'm being realist here, I'm finnish and I know fully well it's genocide every time Russia attacks somewhere, they've done that many times in history here as well. Do you think Ukraine can hold on without the support of European countries? France or Germany or any other western European countries don't have Russia breathing on their neck, and support for war that's "not theirs" is easily manipulated by all the shills and bot factories Russia has to spout it's propaganda.
There is no justice coming, the "evil" will not be held accountable, or if they are, only barely. But making your own odds worse is not going to help, it's not gonna stop Russia from genociding or stop the palestinian children being brutally murdered. It's not really about moral high ground in this case - the ones holding it are the ones that don't understand the war nor care enough. But every bullet and drone strike Ukraine does is one we don't have to do on our border, ask finnish, polish or someone from the Baltics and you get a whole different view on Russia than you'd get from countries not neighboring it
As an American, I know that every day someone around me is having their life ruined or ended by people I could have stopped. Not broadly, but one on one I have the capacity to end their intent to harm before they harm someone else. Big picture thatās not going to change much, Iād likely be ended or removed from society for my efforts and thereās no guarantee the harm to the person I tried to protect keeps them from harm by those same forces indefinitely. Ending state sanctioned brutality requires state level mobilization of forces willing to oppose that. And then, yeah, itās a meat grinder of attrition, destruction, and innocent lives in the crossfire until, hopefully, the aggressor capitulates. Then whoever is left does their best to rebuild and learn from the lesson.
You live in a country that has long lived on the border of a ferociously aggressive neighbor and bled to maintain its independence. I live in one that was once the underdog, tore itself apart over the debate about human rights, and has gone on to be both anti-fascist and fascist af. Diplomacy and trying to limit the fallout of full scale war is great, but eventually thereās opponents who have the power, have the resources, and have the support that will only be stopped when enough people lace up their boots, accept their terms, and say ānoā.
Oh we agree on that, but sacrificing Ukraine or some other country to get the rest of Europe to wake up is a terrible plan that'd just make things easier for Russia. I'd be great if the ones holding the decisive powers in Europe cared and understood, but as long as they don't, you have to play by their rules or you're kinda toast. The process for things to happen is far from simple when it's Europe in question, and I don't know are we getting there or not
I read what I thought was a pretty solid review on the current situation. European leaders seem to be holding off on hard lines because, like many Americans, they keep hoping the next election cycle will put a comfortable, familiar ally back in command of the USā resources. Nobody wants to fight Russia in a full out war, their oligarchs are willing to bleed their nation dry through attrition and worst case they go scorched earth.
But Iām telling you as an American, whatever we were to Europe in the 20th century, whatever right side of history we were on, whatever armies we could muster or nuclear holocaust we could stave off because of mutually assured destruction; we are not that nation anymore and we are not an ally that any European should think will be anytime soon. We are either going to continue to collapse until weāre our own version of Russia, a cabal of oligarchs propping up a strongman and sowing misery internally and abroad that no one stands up to, or weāre going to rip ourselves apart again in a bloody spectacle that the rest of the world sits back and watches in horror. We aināt voting our way out of this, no outside force is going to aid us, and weāre either going to abide our decline or die trying to stop it.
Ukraine is getting pummeled regardless, and itās not going to stop until Russia either gets checked or turns on itself, and I donāt think the latter is going to happen. You guys need to be planning for what to do when Trumpism drops cosplay fascism and the US openly embraces what we all know it already is. China knows, why do you think theyāre so quiet and patient while the western powers flex where they can and dilly-dallies on how they respond to each others disregard for established etiquette?
I certainly do not envy the situation on your side of the ocean, since just watching from far away things seem to be incredibly fucked. I hope you can find some solution that doesn't include becoming even worse dystopian hell or devastate everything, especially since the rest of the world will still take a hit too... But yeah I am not a person that has an opinion about that, that matters.
I'm assuming there's more going on in the talks of European leaders right now, but it's not just revealed. At least they seem to be finally waking up to the realization that USA is not an ally anymore yeah, not as long as your recent disaster of a leadership is in power. Ukraine is holding out pretty well right now all things considered, they've gotten a lot of internal damage done with bringing the war closer to many russians by their drone strikes. I don't know will Putin crumble before he succumbs to old age, but his position is growing weaker as things stand.
The only way Russia stops it's warring though really is if it breaks internally and the russian imperialism - that drives the invasions and genocides - is eradicated. Any ceasefire or stop to the war in Ukraine just means they will use the time to gather their resources for a new attack to somewhere, even if it takes some years. And the only way I can see Russia ever being free of the imperialism, is if it fully breaks internally into independent states. No outside force can help with that, that would just give a convenient enemy to blame, and let them continue with the imperialism even if temporarily hindered
Itās pretty shitty over here because itās a slow boil. It feels like Trump has cranked up the speed but weāve been heading this way a while, and itās been so normalized that every escalation isnāt a surprise, we as individuals who are disgusted by it are really powerless to do anything about it because our institutions are corrupt and between the cops, the courts, and our hateful neighbors, a one person stand against the injustice isnāt going to achieve anything. It like you pointed out with Russia, unless it starts breaking at a state to state level, thereās not much that can be done to break the federal power. Weāre far too big, far too populous, far too resource rich, far too isolated, far too powerful and important to the current global economy to ignore, and the people in power know that so they just keep doing as they please.
Iām hopeful that our midterms this fall will be the breaking point, the final straw that removes all doubt for both foreign and domestic leaders to recognize America is cooked because theyāre going to rig this election as a trial run to ensure theyāve got it sealed to rig the next presidential election. Boycotting our products and encouraging your leaders to withdraw from trade with us is working, the cost of living and the quality of life most of us working class folks enjoyed is skyrocketing and hurting us. But thatās what it takes. Make our privileges suffer and hopefully itāll turn into enough discontent that eventually manifests as a revolt. I have a slight hope for us. For all our acceptance of populist tyranny our self-mythos of rugged individuality, self-determination, glorification of violence, and personal gun collections is bound to come to a climax at some point. Thatās the difference between us and Russia, I really hope for our sake and the worldās sake we donāt end up like that.
It is depressing things turned out this way, thanks for giving more context of the situation on your side of the ocean to this internet rando. USAs been on my personal boycott list for a while now, with countries like China and Israel... it is truly a sad state of affairs I even have that list.
Neo-Nazis and Confederate āLost Causeā advocates nowadays.
Bruh, the high ground isnāt enough
Just this time tho bro!
What if he was just standing near someone who was a legitimate target. You know like the training officer. Or a particularly offensive piece of foliage. Something like that.
That definitely looks like an invasive species of flora he's standing near...
Would be doing them a favor, really.
I'll allow it. Carry on.
Uhhhh there is nothing worse in defensive foliage!
My classmate got killed by Ukraine like this. My colleague was killed by a Russian drone. I know that people like to laugh and this is a soulless trashcan of the internet but you should know that you've touched something in me and I hate you.
I don't see how it's supposed to be my fault that Russia started a war.
It's not your fault. Your fault is ignorance that is cured with experiencing a war at close.
I have no idea what your problem is. I didn't start the war (obviously), I don't think it should be continuing, I don't revel in anyone's death on either side, and I have nothing to do with your friends death.
What exactly is it that you're upset with me about?
"People I know were involved in an illegal war, supported by no one, and chose to engage in it and I'm upset they were killed as a result of participation in a illegal war"
I'm sure the innocent people in Ukraine murdered by your country are just as upset. Except they didn't do anything but get bombed by you.
People I know were involved in an illegal war, supported by no one, and chose to engage in it and I'm upset they were killed as a result of participation in a illegal war
That's a strange way to put it. The person I was talking about was a civilian and you're turning it as if he was a soldier.
No, he tried to profit from the war, like everyone else. Does it make him a bad person? Probably. Does it make his murder justified? Barely
What a shitty fucking anti-human stance you believe in. In the USA (Where I am not from) they don't have healthcare. So when an 8 year old boy is diagnosed with cancer people make Go Fund Me accounts, sell their belonings, and try and go into massive debt to fund the cancer treatment. And this is heavily leaned into a "Feel good story". "Neighbours come together to raise $30,000 for 8 year old with cancer" is such a dystopian headline when that cancer coverage should be fucking free.
But you show up here, on Lemmy of all places, and think civilians trying to not get killed my unmanned drones are a feel good story because they're making the best of a bad situation, when they shouldn't be in that bad situation in the first place if you and people like you weren't stoking off Russia and being okay with civilians being killed.
I'm gonna just straight up say it.
You're a piece of shit human being.
I'm sure the innocent people in Ukraine
TBH I get along with Ukrainians much better than with so called "Ukraine supporters".
Like really, I remember having a job interview with a person in Kiev and him joking about "mopeds" (drones in 2023) have been interrupting the whole interview process.
Almost like life in war becomes accustomed. I believe no one should have to get used to war.
Maybe that's the difference between us. You're fine with innocent people getting killed in illegal wars. I'm not. Innocent people shouldn't be killed in ANY war. According to you innocent people dying is A-Okay.
That's probably why you don't get along with Anti-War activists... They don't agree with you that innocent people dying in war is okay.
My classmate got killed by Ukraine like this. My colleague was killed by a Russian drone. I know that people like to laugh and this is a soulless trashcan of the internet but you should know that youāve touched something in me and I hate you.
Wait, you have a classmate that was in the russian invasion and killed by Ukraine? And then another colleague killed by russia? Assuming that they where fighting russia at the time, or where they just collateral?
No one here (that I know of) is belittling the loss of life this stupid conflict has caused, but other then be angry at russia for invading another nation what are you expecting? Silence over the deaths?
you have a classmate that was in the russian invasion and killed by Ukraine?
He's a civilian doctor who went to work in the "new territories" (occupied ones) . Not the best decisions of his, but still he wasn't a combatant. Propaganda loves to paint people in colors, I don't expect you to understand.
Assuming that they where fighting russia at the time, or where they just collateral?
The colleague was a girl I started to work with just after I left Russia. She went to Lvov (Lviv) to visit parents but then decided to Kiev. Again, not the best decision of her, but this one I expect you to understand.
I'm not trying to change things here. I know this is a shithole, but then I just have an urge to show that this kind of jokes (haha collateral damage) feel different when you are Russian even 4 years into the conflict, worse with Ukrainians.
Sorry for loss. War is really worse then hell because it takes the innocent as well. Putin and war mongers like him that caused her undeserved death deserve a more of punishment then this earthly world can give him imho
War sucks, and I don't know where you're from, but ideally it should stop so fewer people have to die like this. However, if your classmate was that close to a legitimate target, I'm assuming they're aiding Russia too, even if that's just working at an oil port or something.
They didn't need to die, but everyone in Russia who's not pushing back against this invasion is culpable in the death. If this is you, I hope you're making noise at least to make them stop invading another country.
At this point, I just want to say two things
-
"legitimate target" is a dog whistle for commiting a war crime. You are describing one.
-
Please wake up. You're filled with propaganda just as my folks who initially supported the war. Assuming you are not from Ukraine, I want to just recommend you stop watching war related content in social media. This thing poisons how you think and feel the world.
"legitimate target" is a dog whistle for commiting a war crime. You are describing one.
What? Do you live in a world where there aren't legitimate targets? A legitimate target is, for example, and piece of military hardware. Something that isn't is, for example, a water treatment facility.
Please wake up. You're filled with propaganda just as my folks who initially supported the war. Assuming you are not from Ukraine, I want to just recommend you stop watching war related content in social media. This thing poisons how you think and feel the world.
So should Russia just be allowed to have it? No. Fuck off. I don't vibe with appeasement. It didn't work with Nazi Germany before WWII and it won't work for Russia. If they get Ukraine then they'll keep going. They've already threatened other nearby countries.
If you don't like the war, tell the invader to stop fucking invading. Don't tell the defender to stop defending their home. Your friend died because people like you exist. It's your fault and their blood is on your hands, as is every other Russian who has died just to sate Putin's appitate for building a legacy. He doesn't give a shit about you, and this invasion only hurts you. Grow up.
Hey bud,
I only hope that one day you'll stop justifying war crimes. I understand that it is easy for you to say, sitting somewhere in the US and chanting things like that, but man it is sick. You act like a football fan.
Again, what do you want them to do? Should Russia be allowed to just have it? Russia is literally bombing civilian housing, which Ukraine isn't doing. They're the invader. Letting them have their way supports war crimes because it shows they are beneficial.
If Nazi Germany was stopped when they first started invading other nations, we probably wouldn't have had WWII. The same can be said here. Hell, they should have been stopped after the first invasion of Crimea, or even Chechnya, or maybe Georgia, especially after the genocide.
I'm against war crimes. That's why I'm against nations invading other sovereign states. I hope one day you'll stop justyfing them by siding with invaders while your countrymen are slaughtered. Ukraine stopping fighting back doesn't stop war crimes. It only gives Russia what they want and then they'll continue to commit war crimes somewhere else (assuming they don't commit another genocide right there too). If you're against war crimes, you stand against invaders.
Again, what do you want them to do? Should Russia be allowed to just have it?
That's absolutely his stance. He feels like Russia should own and occupy Ukraine.
And he says we're filled with propaganda.
That's absolutely his stance
No, it is not
Then what do you think should happen?! What is the best possible outcome, in your opinion?
We had a pretty good experience exiting WWI. Something like that, but without the civil war
I don't think the exit of WWI happens the same way without a revolution. Just like today, the war was pushed by a few elites; one in particular. They thought they could bring the people together by making them fight a war, but mounting losses, and increasingly bad situations for the common people (not the ruler) led to the people standing up and removing them. This then allowed them to exit the war (notably, in relation to this event, giving up Ukraine too).
If you want an exit like WWI, you have to stop telling people not to support Ukraine. You need to tell Putin to fuck off and stop him. Things only get worse for the common people as long as he continues to want to make a legacy.
The people need to decide that they've suffered enough, while he shelters in his palaces and lives the life of royalty. Ukraine is on your side on this. You just need to figure out that the Putin regime is not doing what's best for the people. He's an emperor who wants to make a legacy, just as the emperors before did. He needs to be removed, as the emperors before were.
Should Russia be allowed to just have it?
You are not in the position of deciding it. You're just arguing on the internet.
If you're against war crimes, you stand against invaders.
If you are against war crimes, you don't argue about when they are justified, but most importantly you do not commit them. Simple as that.
You are not in the position of deciding it. You're just arguing on the internet.
No shit dude. You're telling me not to do this. Give me your reason. Do you just not want to tell me what you want for some reason? You're saying that I must stop voicing my support for the defenders of an invasion, and you must have a reason for that.
If you are against war crimes, you don't argue about when they are justified, but most importantly you do not commit them. Simple as that.
Yeah, and Ukraine isn't really committing many, if any. It's inevitable that some war crime adjacent things happen in any war, but most of what makes it a crime is intent. For example, if a drone is shot down or jammed and crashes into civilian infrastructure, that's not a war crime because it wasn't intentional. Russia is literally sending drones to bomb apartments in Ukraine. That's a war crime.
I want Ukraine to defeat Russia to show that committing war crimes and invading other nations is not beneficial. I want pieces of shit like you, who use their friends deaths as a cudgel to argue against Ukraine support to suffer. Your friends probably didn't intend to die, assuming they're real, so you can argue in favor of supporting daddy Putin's legacy building. They probably didn't want to be fodder for some dying weak old man's prestige. This is what you make of them though. That's how much you value them. If you really cared about them you'd try to stop the invaders so people can stop dying for the sake of a man who doesn't care if you exist.
I want Ukraine to defeat Russia
the war for you is really a football match. Think about it
You keep saying that because you can't justify your stance, because it's fucked up. It's as much a football match for me as the outcome of WWII is. The Nazis were disgusting and evil, and them winning would have been a horrible outcome for the entire world. Russia has already proven they'll continue to attack other nations if they can, and they've also proven they're willing to commit genocides. Putin needs to be stopped.
I'm sorry on their behalf. Thank you for providing a viewpoint of someone who's affected by this; we all need to keep in mind that war is not a good thing.
Do you really need a reminder of that though?
Not that anyone was actually cleaning otherwise of course.
Can't we make just this one exception? It would be a net good for humanity!
Wait, since when does international law matter with regard to drone strikes? I could cite dozens of drone strikes by the Trump administration that clearly violated international law and they didn't even make a ripple in any court system anywhere?
Ukraine's support from other countries relies heavily on them having and maintaining the moral high ground.
Which makes them winning (sadly slowly, but still doing it) so much more impressive. They're fighting an invasion of their country where the enemy has no moral obligations but they themselves need to be real fucking careful about what they do, even for stuff within their country. As far as I know they have only attacked Russian infrastructure and military sites with reason within Russian borders. Meanwhile Russia have bombed and shot at hospitals, apartment buildings, kindergartens, shopping malls with people standing in line to get the little produce available etc. But they're still beating them. It's slow and it fucking sucks so much how much they have lost, but they're still doing it.
Well Ukraine ain't the US
You know you fucked up as a country when even 2026 war-thorn Ukraine looks at you and goes "ugh no thanks..."
"Less blatantly unethical than the US" is not that high a bar, to be fair.
The Trump administration, the Biden administration, the Obama administration, the Bush administration.. You get the picture.
It's more like guidelines than laws. Ukraine breaks them at times when they double tap soldiers for example, but drone warfare makes it difficult to take pows. I'm on team Ukraine and it's not the Tate brothers that would get an outcry from me in any case.
First Geneva Convention says you can't kill soldiers who are out of battle due to injuries or sickness, that much is true. I haven't heard of these "double taps" before so I don't know the circumstances but I wanted to point out that killing an injured soldier who have not yet decided to stop fighting is seemingly allowed.
I've seen a few video where they drop a grenade on someone that's clearly been knocked unconscious, as well as some where the person has given up. I've seen one where they let the person walk to the front line and give himself up as well.
I think most drone squads operate close or behind enemy lines and from a fair distance from the actual drone. You can't really take prisoners in those kinds of situation in most cases.
Ahh come on guys. Cant we just drone strike them a little bit.
Just one time, as a lil treat...
For āĖā” šš¦šš¤ššš¤ ā§ĖĀ°.
Being a child trafficker should be punishable by death
Nothing should be punishable by death. Death penalty is uncivilized and full of problems.
You say that like savagery is somehow worse the civilization, rarely in history does one find so called savages who are worse than their civilized counterparts. If I could go unga bunga and smash in my biological fathers brains I can garuntee that the world would improved, he is protected from the consequences of his actions by the failure of civilization.
So you would be against netynahu being hung after a trial at the hauge?
Thankfully the Netherlands are civilised.
Guillotine it is.
Do you have issues understanding the word nothing?
I disagree
I would.
I'd prefer him to be held, alive, to watch while the monstrosity he's wrought is dismantled piece by piece. Being made to experience having everything you've ever done become shame and humiliation, from a small concrete box with basic rations and a stainless steel pot to shit in. To have enough time to potentially come to the realisation of just how much of an absolute and utter stain on humanity his existence has been.
Hanging leaves no space for true repentance. Or the long term suffering of incarceration until death by natural causes, or preferably, both. Shrug
The pedophile class would find a way to pamper him
Yes.
I completely agree. It's such a waste of free labor and medical test subjects.
That's literal nazi shit you're proposing
Not only, most extreme authoritarian governments tend to do it. Soviets did that as well. Neither is it race based, which was huge point for nazis. So probably more soviet influcened than nazi influcened.
The only reason why death penalty for filth like child traffickers isn't good is because governments and individuals abuse power and might convict falsely (+ human fault leading to mistakes in the conviction process) but ridding society of parasites like that is the most civilized thing that can be done to them.
ridding society of parasites
That seems somehow familiar. Hmm. Where I have I heard that political rhetoric before? Whatever, it's only '26. I'm sure by '33 it will all come back.
Yeah, sure, because minorities being systematically tortured and murdered are the same as pedophile rapists, especially in times like these with Epstein and his supporters walking away scotfree from their crimes. Be for real. And as I said, the rate of deliberate or false convictions makes this too much of a risk for people as it is easily exploitable. If one of these monsters dies I'm gonna celebrate though.
It's not that the stance you are in is wrong, it's the language you use that is.
Dehumanizing people, whether deserving or not, is how we get to fascism and genocide.
Stories of Rassenschande, which denoted alleged scandals of Jewish men and German women having sex, were staples of Der StĆ¼rmer.[15] Streicher described Jews as sex offenders who were[12] "violators of the innocent, perpetrators of bizarre sex crimes, and ritual murderers", who allegedly performed in religious ceremonies using blood of other humans, usually Christians. Streicher also frequently reported attempts of child molestation by Jews. Der StĆ¼rmer never lacked details about sexual intercourse, names, and crimes to keep readers aroused and entertained. These accusations, articles, and crimes printed in Der StĆ¼rmer were often inaccurate, and rarely investigated by staff members. In the newspaper's opinion, if a German girl became pregnant by a Jew, the Jew would deny paternity, offer to pay for an abortion, fail to pay child support, or leave for the United States. Within Der StĆ¼rmer, it was not uncommon to read reports of German women aborting their children because they did not want to bring a "Jewish bastard into the world".[12]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_St%C3%BCrmer#Alleged_sexual_crimes
You seem like some sort of oppportunistic tick. Let's kill you first when the time comes
I agree that we use the death penalty too often, and often for the wrong reasons, but I would never want that option to be permanently off the table.
There are some people so heinous, that they need to be removed for the good of society. Leaving them alive only emboldens those who think like them. Child Rapist/Murders, Serial Killers, Torture Killers, Actual Treason, and a few others EARN their death penalties, and as a society, we need to eliminate them, and end any influence on our society and culture.
We should only use it a handful of times in a decade, and only in cases where there is no dispute at all. The inmate should have the benefit of a last comprehensive review of their case by a panel of judges, and any chances to use improved technology, DNA, etc. If the death sentence holds up, then it should be a national event, followed on the news, and everybody in the nation should know what we are doing, and why. We should all be a part of it, as a nation.
I remember when those two numbskulls in Connecticut home invaded that family, tied them up, raped the mother and daughters all night, then set the house on fire. The father escaped, called the authorities from the neighbor's house, and the cops and fire Dept rolled up, just as these dipshits ran out of the burning house. They were caught LITERALLY red-handed, and then immediately confessed by blaming the other guy.
I had a lot of conversations online about that crime, and one thing that was common among Connecticut residents was that they regretted getting rid of the death penalty because even though they didn't like it, they ALL thought these guys deserved it.
We shouldn't surrender our ultimate option, just because it makes us uncomfortable. It SHOULD make us uncomfortable, but we have a responsibility as a society to not limit our own defenses. Those who attack our society will not respect our "humanity,"they will exploit it.
No matter how horrible the crime Is, time and again, the conclusion is death penalty is still a bad thing.
In the list of things going wrong about killing innocents, you have human errors, bias towards minorities (on purpose or not), framing individuals, abuse of power, and plain political weaponization.
On the policy side, you think you would restrain it to the most horrendous crimes. Look at the current climate in the US administration: criticizing Israel's genocide in Gaza is "the same as" wishing all Jews dead, and they started comparing Trump to God.
Normalize the death penalty, and see a bench of crimes labelled horrible enough to warrant a death sentence. That may still come, but the fact that today, death penalty is not normalized prevents them from going there faster.
If you want to remove individuals from society, you still have lifelong prison. At least there, society gets a change to mitigate its mistakes.
What is crazy is that your comment got more likes than the one you replied to. Humans are really disgusting and humanity is a lost cause, beyond saving. Child traffickers should not only be killed but also tortured and raped before killing them - get the same treatment as the kids that were kidnapped.
"Humanity is a lost cause" - proceeds to display a phenomenal lack of humanity by demanding retribution.
Good game. Way to make a point.
Retribution achieves nothing except continuing the circle of violence. The humane thing to do is recognizing the humanity even in supposed monsters. Let's suppose that doesn't matter and we would agree that certain crimes need to be punished with the most intense cruelty we can come up with: What if someone is wrongfully convicted? that happens all the time. You can't undo killing someone.
Torture and death penalty are barbaric and have no place in democracy.
While I believe that child murderers, especially those who rape and torture children, have absolutely EARNED their death penalties, your suggestion that we torture them the same way is ridiculous. Who do we get to perform this punishment? Another torture-murderer we haven't executed yet? Or is this a Department of Corrections position with specialized training?
I don't buy the argument that executing a heinous murderer lowers the government to their level, but torturing them first DEFINITELY does.
That's an immature position to take. Think harder.
America would lose half the presidential administration.
Which is fine by me, BTW.
I was gonna say, you make it sound like a bad thing.
Unfortunately, he hasn't been convicted yet
We live in a failed state. If we want justice weāre going to have to make it at this point
Mere technicality.
Convictions are required for legal punishments
we see all your tags and we get it
Ooooh this is how you die from robot bees
We shouldn't post anything from this neonazi social network.
Yes we should. And by you saying otherwise makes no better than neonazis.
Book burning is book burning.
Yeah, I'm equivalent to a neonazi because I say we shouldn't promote a neonazi website, that's a really smart comment. Just like we should all use tiktok or instagram because if we don't, we're no better than the book burner nazis, this is obvious. Thanks for enlightening me with you wisdom.
I am against virtually everything Hitler stood for. There is almost nothing that I and that terrible person would agree on. Yet I have read Mein Kampf.
Likewise, I agree with very little in The Communist Manifesto, but I have read that as well.
I encourage people to read these works, not because they are good, but because understanding bad ideas is one of the best ways to recognize and oppose them.
You think Twitter is a neo-Nazi website because the billionaire who bought it performed a gesture that many people, myself included, interpreted as a Nazi salute two years ago.
Based on what I know about the man, he may be racist. He may even be a closeted Nazi. I do not know. It certainly would not surprise me.
What I do not do is tell people what books they should not read, what websites they should not visit, or what ideas they should not be exposed to simply because I dislike the politics involved.
You are not demonstrating moral virtue by expressing your dislike of Twitter or its owner. You are demonstrating intellectual narrow-mindedness. If your beliefs are sound, they should be able to withstand exposure to opposing viewpoints.
Just in case, I am talking about Elon Musk.
Moreover, by condemning the posting of Twitter, you are essentially enforcing the same kind of rhetoric that pushes people into book burnings.
Twitter should not be ignored. It should be embraced and then attacked for exactly the reasons why it isn't good to start with.
You think Twitter is a neo-Nazi website because the billionaire who bought it performed a gesture that many people, myself included, interpreted as a Nazi salute two years ago.
Twitter is a neonazi shithole because it literally finances neonazi and far-right groups. And it's own by a neonazi.
"You are not demonstrating moral virtue by expressing your dislike of Twitter or its owner. You are demonstrating intellectual narrow-mindedness. If your beliefs are sound, they should be able to withstand exposure to opposing viewpoints."
LMAO, "I'm 14 and I"m an intellectual" type of stuff.
Just say you don't want to leave twitter, you might be overestimating the interest people have in your opinions,
Notice that you did not rebut a single point I made.
You responded with two assertions and one insult.
If your objection is that Twitter finances extremist groups, make that argument and support it. If your objection is that its owner is a neo-Nazi, make that argument and support it.
Mocking me for sounding "intellectual" is not a rebuttal. It is an admission that you would rather attack the speaker than engage with the substance of what was said.
Which brings us back around to my original point, that you are no better than the people you supposedly dislike. You currently sound like some maga fundie talking about how pronouns are woke just on the opposite side of the spectrum.
You probably never heard that Mark Twain quote cause you wouldn't know who he is but here: "Never Argue With Stupid People. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level and Then Beat You With Experience."
BUT, you're in luck! I haven't fill my monthly quota on wasting my time on people like you so I'll bite.
The fact Musk did a nazi salute was just him sending is heart to people. The fact that 48 hours after that, he was a guest speaker for the AfD (neo-nazi german party, here's one of their ads where parents makes a roof for the childrens. Was obviously just him engaging in friendly politics. The fact that is own stupid AI referred to itself as meka-Hitler and kept mentioning white genocide in South Afrika was just playful thing.
The fact that the Creator Ads Revenu on twitter that musk created is just him advocating from freedom of speech. No need to do research by yourself, these are just fake news from antifa.
Finally, I didn't said you sound like intellectual LMAO, I said you sound like a 14 years old WANNABE-intellectual. You're as much of intellectual as trump is a good negociator, peace-keeper and child protector, maybe this is compliment IDK. But I don't blame you. you're so full on yourself (who knows what's in there?) there might not be room an once of critical thinking.
So in the end I think you're too smart to be here (so many books burner on Lemmy), you should go hang out with the plurality of totally-not-neonazi "content creator" on twitter.
The Mark Twain quote does not even apply here.
The point of that quote is that some people drag a discussion down to insults and personal attacks instead of engaging with arguments. Ironically, that is exactly what you have been doing throughout this conversation.
I made an argument. You responded by calling me a 14-year-old wannabe intellectual. I made another argument. You responded with more insults about how full of myself I am.
That is not "beating me with experience." It is avoiding the substance of the discussion.
You are free to argue that Musk is a neo-Nazi. You are free to argue that Twitter financially benefits extremists. Those are actual arguments that can be discussed.
What you have not done is explain why reading objectionable material is wrong, why exposure to opposing viewpoints is harmful, or why people should avoid ideas simply because they dislike them.
Instead, you keep reaching for personal attacks while lecturing others about critical thinking.
The most amusing part is the level of condescension. You quote Mark Twain, tell me I probably have never heard of him, announce that you are graciously willing to waste some of your monthly quota of time on me, and then spend several paragraphs explaining how intellectually superior you think you are.
At some point you should ask yourself whether you are actually arguing against my position or just performing for an audience.
For someone so concerned about arrogance, you seem remarkably confident that disagreement with you can only be explained by stupidity.
That is a long ass comment just to demonstrate you don't know who Mark was lol. Do you have a hard on when you write shit like this, or only when you read it back?
That is not ābeating me with experience.ā It is avoiding the substance of the discussion. LMFAO - you really didn't get the quote did you? You are one the most eloquent demonstration of the relevance of it that I've came across.
Go read the fucking Mein Kampf and jerk with nazis on twitter, I don't give a fuck. I should also check out Jordan Peterson and the late Charlie Kirk (you're probably already a fan).
You're a special kind of stupid aren't you?
I sure am.
I think I see some master-debating people right there, on facebook. You should go have a high-level intellectual discussion about why it's important to promote a website that financially supports neonazis. You're gonna fit just right.
Have a wonderful day. X X X
Ehhh go step on a Lego you retard.
This is more like burning of racist chick tracts, neonazi propaganda leaflets and notes passed between immature teenagers.
Fun fact, whenever filmmakers finish a project involving Nazi iconography like swastikas etc. they destroy it all after they wrap.
Strongly worded UN reaction incoming
The real reason is: he is doing negative PR for the Russian aemy.
Yes, but criminally shitty people
Not with that kind of attitude.
Have the considered crowdfunding?
I donāt know anything about the account but linking the original post https://x.com/usf_army/status/2064682581057011886
Will those idiots actually enter combat? Will they get sent there against their will? Is there some chance they'll just become more meat for the grinder?
Here's to hoping.
It could an accident, just saying.
āCannotā or will not? š”
Learn something from your precious Netanyahu or Donald. Yes you can.
That hasn't stopped the united States for some time now
Some time? Was there ever a time when they did follow international law? I don't think so.
Point taken.
This fucker most definitely did more harm by his acts and influence on others than any soldier in the whole human history.
If that doesn't make him a target, I don't know what we are fighting for.
Kidding... I know wars are fought to amuse and enrich oligarchs.
As bad as he is I doubt he's the worst soldier in human history.
I believe you are seriously downplaying all the damage he inflicted, directly or indirectly, to current and future generations.
Not to seem trite, but Hitler was a soldier and most definitely worse then tate. As were many dictators come to think of it, Almost like mentally scared, charismatic "strongmen" are really fucking dangerous.
You seem trite.
Damn! My bad.
What an american history education does to a motherfucker.
it's disgusting to see how bloodthirsty some people are here on lemmy.
I think it's pretty understandable to desire a violent reaction to people that commit atrocities against vulnerable people and get off with minimal repercussions. If there were any justice for people like the tates, drone striking them wouldn't be such a desirable outcome. When there isn't any justice for some of the worst crimes out there, people will want a way to permanently prevent those people from doing horrible things.
Yeah, Andrew Tate has personally ruined who knows how many lives. His rhetoric has likely ruined several orders of magnitude more lives. Anybody should naturally feel that Tate's life cannot be worth more than all of those lives that he's ruined.
Because we are modern people, our first instinct is, well, just imprison him for the rest of his life and then we can forget about him. Problem solved.
But the problem is not solved because we can all see, in real time, that justice doesn't seem to be happening here.
It's when justice is denied that people start to think of extrajudicial solutions. This is the danger of having dysfunctional governments that don't serve the best interests of their citizens.
Wanted to say that. In an ideal world, the Tates would have never let the cells they were in. This world is far from ideal, and also it really isn't that far fetched to target enemy propagandists in a war - they are working for the russian aggressor after all.
Do you have a better solution that actually works? Because I would take it if so
You aren't paying attention if you think that. There is only one thing power understands.
Two things.
They understand money, too. We could, theoretically, pay them to stop being shit. We just need a lot of money.
Lol for real. They love the boot when it hurts people they don't like. I will smile widely when that man is no more, but it's unhinged to wish drone strikes on people.
It's especially fucked once you realize the strength-through-force idea contributes to that fuckwads appeal.
Want and need are two very different things. I don't personally want to kill enough conservative extremists to correct the course of my country. I'd rather read Tolkien in the woods.
Need, tho... that's the word.
If you think that's disgusting just wait until you see the insides of a fascist become outsides