Epstein puts my morality into perspective
10mon 23d ago by lemmy.today/u/postcapitalism in showerthoughts
We are just finding out about a child sex trafficking ring involving politicians and billionaires, the world’s richest man does a Nazi salute at a political rally, and the President being an adjudicated sex criminal is probably not the worst thing he has done…
Meanwhile I’m standing here in the checkout line feeling guilty about whether or not I should tip a barista
Something is wrong with our collective notion of morality, and my individual understanding (Oh well, here we are)
And make sure to turn off all the lights and appliances you're not using to save power for the AI. This future is trash.
And reduce your water usage because it's a drought. While we grow water heavy crops like almonds in those drought stricken regions and foreign investors from arid countries grow water heavy crops like alfalfa solely for export back home.
Or specifically bred/GMOd soy and corn which gets used for animal food instead of soy and corn humans could eat.
(Nothing against GMO, but against our high animal produce consumption)
Just finding out? Haha, no, we've known about this ring for the better part of a decade now. The wealthy and powerful probably a lot longer than that.
Even the next part:
world’s richest man does a Nazi salute at a political rally,
Don't get me wrong, horrible and completely unacceptable.
But sure as shit is nowhere near the line of what's happened with the last 100 years:
The Business Plot, also called the Wall Street Putsch[1] and the White House Putsch, was a political conspiracy in 1933 in the United States to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator.[2][3] Butler, a retired Marine Corps major general, testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization with him as its leader and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities (the "McCormack–Dickstein Committee") on these revelations.[4] Although no one was prosecuted, the congressional committee final report said, "there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
In case anyone's eyes glazed over instead of reading, two key points:
wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization with him as its leader and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow Roosevelt.
And even more importantly:
Although no one was prosecuted, the congressional committee final report said, "there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient."
Shit didn't just get bad, it's been bad.
And the way to fight it is an opposition party like FDR.
A fairly wide range of problems in modern society can be traced to the judiciary's reluctance to both prosecute and sentence the rich with the same rigor they apply to the poor.
Everyone acting like these are the worst times ever, makes me wonder about their history education. Yeah, America's taken a steep dive this century. Yeah, that's normal for empires to fall. Usually to greed.
I'm hoping we crash hard, Great Depression hard. That clusterfuck ushered in liberal politics dominating until the 90s. We had conservatives, Reagan comes to mind, but they didn't have unchecked power like today.
Only exception I got is global warming. We've never played this particular game before.
False premise. I never said it was the worst time ever, or even that I was surprised.
This is just about the relativity of my morality and what society is willing to tolerate
(this to the above two smart comments as well - although I don’t fundamentally disagree)
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before
I mean...
Anatomically modern humans have been around, what, 300k years?
Like you could grab someone from back then as an infant, raise them today, and they'd just be a regular dude.
The last ice age ended about 50k years ago, and that's why we say civilization was finally able to start. But that ignores that humans went thru the same ice age cycle 4-5 times in those 300k years.
If all it took was "no ice age" then logically the chances of the first civilization being 50k years ago is pretty much zero.
Climate change is like the inevitable reset for humanity. We're making it happen fast this time, but we can't really be sure that's unique either. It doesn't even take us, just a supervolcanoe or asteroid.
Bright side is it makes it more likely humanity as a species makes it thru the next one. I think evidence shows we've been down to like 1,000 humans world wide 70k years ago? Maybe as little as 50 adults of reproductive age?
But we're 8 something billion now.
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before.
We also never had nukes before.
The conditions have been worse in the past, but the risks are so much worse these days.
Oh yeah Musks grandparents were part of that
The Business Plot never ended, they just regrouped. All those fuckers involved should have been hung.
The way to fight it isn't a FDR-style party that will just give concessions to staunch the momentum of the working class, which was rallying behind communist ideology through unionization efforts, that was threatening the capitalist status quo at the time. That status quo is the entire root of the problem. The only way to fight it is to dismantle the system that gives them their power and build something new, not to continue enabling the very systems that keep us on our knees.
Actually over 2 decades, now. Epstein's plea deal was in 2008 under Bush.
When did I get old?
Given this past decade, I'd say I we've known about it for the worst part of the decade.
Reminds me of something. Martin Luther’s own writings dating from 1531, in which he stated that Pope Leo X:
Vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the Pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy.
Our tech changes but we don't.
On a related note, the latest Trump administration cabinent picks and antics unironically cured my impostor syndrome.
If these gaggle of fucking demented backstabbing morons are good enough to run this country...
And they can show that about half the country is actually so stupid and or intentionally blind and or evil to somehow not realize their cult leader just obviously is a huge rapist and pedoohile...
Then I am better than this country.
Better qualified, more empathetic, more competent.
Turns out it was just angry clowns gaslighting us the whole time.
Well uh fuck em, this is all so stupid that I now actually have the correct amount of self-confidence and self-respect, it is indeed this entire society that is a joke, not that I am somehow fundamentally inadequate.
"Only those who do not seek power are qualified to hold it." Plato knew what was up.
it's easier to get ahead with a weaker skillset if you're ok with fucking over someone else to get there.
angry clowns
We are stuck in a surreal angry clowns horror movie.
Viva la revolucion
No, your notion of morality is accurate, there's no reason to race to the bottom because someone else sucks more.
No one suggested that we need to do worse than the billionaires.
Still we must refrain from doing worse than ourselves
Are you really feeling guilty about not tipping because of the moral implications, or do you just feel socially shamed? Important distinction.
Considering the idea of shame is society's way to enforce it's version of morality, I would argue no it is not a distinction.
Considering that drinking coffee is my prefered kind of laxative, i would argue theres actually no distinction between coffee and shit.
I don’t … think that was a part of the conversation going right now, but I am enjoying the turn it is taking!
Huh. I know this has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation, but I just realized I started experiencing constipation after I stopped drinking coffee. I think I should start doing that again. Thanks homie!
Oh, ya boi hydrates! I drink so much water that I don't flush after using a stall just to flex on the next motherfucker.
I had a feeling my comment had a noble purpose :)
Fuck yeah!
Like you said, society's version of morality. So it can be a very important distinction because your own version of morality might differ. Not being aware of this distinction is dangerous because it stops people from developing their own moral compass. This own morality is more firm and can be relied on in the absence of shame, or even when society encourages behavior one finds immoral.
I'm even gonna go on a wilder speculation here and claim that one of the driving factors behind humanity's worst atrocities was that large portions of society who had the potential in them for a firm morality rooted in empathy and love never developed this potential.
On a less import note, not being aware of this distinction can breed a lot of resentment and unhappiness, if someone is constantly compelled to follow rules that they, deep down, consider to be bullshit.
Of course that doesn't mean I encourage people to just disregard society's version of morality and lightly assume that they know better.
Edit: just noticed your username, I hope that furriosa is doing well <3
*Furryosa is doing well and thank you for acknowledging me.
But fuck you anyways!
For me it's the empathy of knowing that that person won't have enough money because I know they don't get a living wage.
But by tipping the person you support the system that doesn't pay them a living wage. It's similar to why you shouldn't give money to people begging.
You shouldn't go to restaurants at all if you're averse to tipping. Only by starving the industry can the policy be scrapped. Don't take it out on the workers. Hold the owners to account.
I'd say it's a little thornier than that. By tipping, you support the person who has to take the job that doesn't pay them a living wage. Absolutely, this can have the side effect of supporting the system creating this condition, but so too does patronizing businesses that employ this practice. The best move if you don't want to support the system is to not patronize businesses that function this way at all. Increasing corporate revenue while not contributing to the welfare of the person who had to take that job is not a morally better position.
Feel somewhat similar about giving money to beggars, though with slightly more emphasis on the voluntary nature of the act (which itself could be fodder for moral discussion - what's the difference between Jack the Hobo's and Jack the Barista's experience?). End of the day, while systematic overhaul so both of these conditions are irrelevant is warranted, for both groups it's about survival until the next day (yes, for some beggars survival includes dope, withdrawl is hell). The revolution ain't coming tomorrow, and even if it did there's time required to get these folks what they need. It's entirely possible they wouldn't make it to that point without voluntary support from individuals or small groups.
Not OP, but both.
I feel guilty because I’m conflicted about what the right thing to do is, the cost, and care about fellow workers.
You probably understand why I would have a moral question (alongside some guilt of doing the wrong thing) after reading through the entire thread engaging your comment.
Meanwhile Epstein, Elon, and Trump don’t seem to have these hang-up’s and are rewarded handsomely by society…
One of the best distinctions!
Our leaders are so disconnected from the average person only them being forced to confront their own mortality can snap them out of it.
By morality you mean our collective fork and knife?
mortality
Granted
Good reminder to play Persona 5 again.
Maxwell's father worked for various intelligence agencies. This appears to be a blackmail operation by the Mossad and/or the CIA. The former Israeli Prime Minister visited Epstein's home several times.
You know I didn't really think about that.
I know of the connection between Maxwell and Mossad.
Obviously Mossad needs a way to influence billionaires more than just money. The AIPAC (or whatever) has no real ability to sway them.
The sudden acceptance by western countries acknowledging Gaza a state? Could be that Mossad and AIPAC lost their influence.
The billionaires want Maxwell free because she gets them things they cant normally buy, plus other kickbacks from Israel I presume.
I don't think it's blackmailing the billionaires, it's just out right not giving them what they want.
Yet another reason to not have billionaires.
Because we needed more of thosem
There's a book about it.
The uncle of the murdered Saudi journalist Jamal Kashoggi had extensive business dealings with Epstein and Israel and the current Saudi ruler MBS was a "friend" of Epstein according to Epstein. Kashoggi was murdered about 10 month prior to Epstein being murderes.
A lot of the evil of the world right now has been involved with Epstein in one way or another.
I think we have three major bad acts at play going on in the US, that I've been able to link to specific actors, at least. We have FBI and intelligence confirmed Russian misinformation campaigns exploiting our right to free speech. We have Chinese narcotic warfare (see Opium war), as posited by the DEA - fentanyl precursors are mostly Chinese. And we have the Epstein honeypot operation conducted by CIA/Mossad/Organized crime influencing policy for decades. See these two volumes.
There are way way more than that. Cyber campaigns by China, NorK and Iran, for examples.
Yeah, I just keep finding more lol. I think WW3 is a real possibility
Trump wouldn't act that guilty if it was.
Why would he not act guilty? He was, at the very least, an unwitting asset.
Her father’s funeral was attended by multiple former Mossad chiefs. It’s believed he gave israel the bomb.
I’d definitely look in that direction.
It’s believed he gave israel the bomb.
I don't think the timelines on this match up one bit. In fact I wonder what you're trying to do by linking them. I'll buy the mossad, their fingers are everywhere, but the israeli nuclear program predates epstein by decades. It would take them ages to get to the point where they could test their work - probably the Vela incident - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident- and at this time epstein was teaching teens math and science then went on to banking.
so I don't understand how you conflate these things.
well that's a hell of a lot more plausible!
we known it since 2019, when he epsteined himself. and it went back decades, the MSM did thier best to not report it for the last 4 years. because too many politicians, both US and the world leaders, plus many donors. just like with the panama papers.
The thing is:
The little things do matter. They shape who you are. They shape the lives of the people around you. They're important.
But this is like a death-penalty-on-the-table-murder-trial being interrupted by a nuclear bomb. And that shit always happens.
Yes this other shit happens more, yes it's a priority, and yes none of your everyday decency will influence it in the slightest, but it still matters.
You just also have to fix that other shit.
It's not'nothing matters' its 'fuck, more work'.
While people in power are absolute evil most of the time, this is not an excuse to change your own morals for the worse.
Small acts of kindness, when taken in decent quantity, change the world no less than massive fraud and sex trafficking.
That said, one of the most moral things to do is to be on the lookout for powerful people doing nasty things and do everything in your capacity to prevent or at least retaliate. This makes abuse less common, and goes a long way to restore democracy and responsibility for everyone.
Don't expect the world to reward your good behavior. You will find your own internal motivation, or maybe not. But judging others never ends well. Just focus on your own actions. Nobody says being a good human being is easy...
It’s like that with most big ticket items, we run about worrying about recycling while the big polluters continue as usual. Not to say we shouldn’t recycle or not take action if we can but finding ways to make the billionaires pull their heads in would be better.
You're just finding out maybe.
Just finding out? Hasn't all of this been known for almost a decade now?
Epstein prosecutions started in 2006. https://apnews.com/article/trump-epstein-investigation-records-timeline-545c371ee3dd3142355a26d27829c188
Don't forget, while the Qanon BS is flourishing, a former Speaker of the House (3rd in line to the presidecy) gets imprisoned for molesting at least four teenage boys.
It's a tough go for the people who believe in pacifism or nonviolent change.
Dual Power means you can have a pacifist stance and still support the radicals in your lane.
Not everyone needs to be a gunslinger for a resistance to succeed. Just do what you can when you have the chance.
I never meant to imply a pacifist would be required to engage in violence, only that they would have to indirectly support it at the very least, lest their own principles be engulfed by those who would see to their extinction.
I mean, you should tip the barista, though.
But who are you tipping, really.
In the US, there is such thing as "tipped minimum wage". So, federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour, but the employer may pay as little as $2.13/hour themselves if the worker makes up the rest with tips.
Most extreme in Delaware. Minimum wage is $15/hour, but minimum tipped wage is just $2.23, so up to $12.77/hour in tips can just be a discount to the employer.
Why do you think tips are being pushed so much in the US?
Chart per jurisdiction: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
And lots of employers will refuse to pay more than the tipped rate on slow days stealing wages from the workers if they think they can get away with it.
You wish they did because then you'd have a easy lawsuit with plenty of lawyers willing to take that case. "lots of employers will refuse to pay" is a straight lie, employers are happy to pay the wage if you dont get any tips. Its still min wage and min wage is fuck all.
if they think they can get away with it.
You missed this apparently.
If they think they can get away with it doesnt matter. Obviously the only people commiting wage theft are the ones who think they can get away with it. Its up to the employee to ensure they do not get away with it.
Placing the blame on the victim to not be taken advantage of instead of blaming the one who is taking advantage of others is myopic as fuck.
No where did I blame victims. The original post made the claim that a lot of employers will refuse to pay. I said no a lot of employers wont do that because they would get sued out the ass. He said "if they think they can get away with it" which is a redundant statement, no employer who doesnt think they will get away with wage theft is going to still commit it. So then the original argument is still a lot of employers do not commit wage theft because they would get sued if they did. Employees should continue to take legal actions against employers who do not pay.
To think that employees standing up for their legal rights is victim blaming or licking capitalist boots is braindead.
Its up to the employee to ensure they do not get away with it.
This is literally victim blaming.
Oh, you were exploited by the system? Well it's your fault for letting them do it, silly peasant!
You literally do not understand the mechanisms behind systemic exploitation.
The original claim wasn't that they will simply just "refuse to pay", it is that they will take advantage of the convoluted system in order to exploit the vulnerable and desperate workers they are responsible for.
Trusting the legal system that was designed and run by capitalists to uphold the interest of workers is braindead bootlicking. Literally. Fuck off your naive bullshit.
Its up to the employee to ensure they do not get away with it.
This is literally victim blaming.
No its not. Crime is not magically detected by the all seeing eye. If someone commits a crime against you then its in your best interest to report it because it sure wont be the criminal who is reporting it.
it is that they will take advantage of the convoluted system in order to exploit the vulnerable and desperate workers they are responsible for.
Even if this is what I said (which it isnt) that still doesnt give a reason why employees shouldnt seek legal recourse and it just proves what I am saying even more. IF employers were so confortable explotiing this system then the only reason that would be is because they dont expect the workers to take any action against them. You're the only one here saying workers should take no action against their employer who is taking their wages. Actually in one of your comments you said they should "protest until the boss wont do it anymore" which is a terrible suggestion.
You're intentionally trolling and im done feeding you.
Bud you think fraud doesn't happen? How naive are you? Businesses will happily commit fraud if they think they can get away with it. And they do, routinely.
Do you seriously think that I believe that fraud doesnt happen? What would give businesses the impression that they can commit fraud? Oh it would be people not suing the fuck out of them.
If its a slow day and your employer doesnt pay you the legal min wage then you sue them. Its that simple. You dont turn around and act like getting no tips that day was the reason you made $2.
You don't get paid daily, dipshit. What gives them the impression they can get away with it is because they rely on a convoluted system to obscure their fraud against vulnerable, such as the youth who do not fully understand their rights as workers, and the desperate who are taking bottom of the barrel jobs to make ends meet and don't want to risk putting their lifeline in jeopardy to stand up for their rights. A legal battle takes time, but rent is due and the fridge is empty right now.
Jesus Christ, you are naive. Holy fuck you're not even worth talking to. Fuck off with your myopic victim blaming rhetoric.
Is it really as simple as using your not money that you weren't paid to hire a lawyer, take off of work for even less money to sue your employer?
Where my "that was easy" button, I'm dying to press it.
For a wage theft case you would not need to pay a lawyer. There are plenty of lawyers that seek out these cases and pay themselves off the settlement. You would need to do is book a meeting and explain the case and show up in court once if you boss was stupid enough to fight it. Thats not a wildly impossible set of steps to take.
Also, a lot of states are right to work states, which is exactly what it doesn't sound like. What do you think happens when my employer finds out Im bringing a lawsuit against them?
What the fuck is your point? "What happens if they find out im suing them" If your employer doesn't pay you correctly and then fires you when you seek legal action they are fucked under the Fair Labor Standards Act. They've just increased their fine from up to 10k to add another 25k.
I actually perplexed why people are pushing back against my claim that people should seek to protect their federally protected work rights. The examples that have been brought up are open and shut cases that will be picked up by any law firm and they will sue for recomp + damages + lawyer fees. Yes its "harder" than doing nothing, but by doing nothing you do not fix the problem and continue to be exploited. There is no magic eye that can perfectly detect illegal activity its up to the victim to come forward and make their case thats how law works in our society.
Lol if it was that simple, wage theft wouldn't exist. These corporations can afford to steal your money, have calculated the risk, and continue to steal money.
They're not going to write down "brought lawsuit" they're going to find an arbitrary reason, or better yet write down "I didn't like that person" because it's a right to work state and even in non right to work states, labor protection is dogshit.
No, lets be clear wage theft covers a lot of things. Here we are talking about a very specific situation where an employer is clearly violating the FLSA. You can even see it in this thread, so many people dont even believe that its illegal. So they dont even know they can sue for it.
"they’re going to find an arbitrary reason, or better yet write down “I didn’t like that person” because it’s a right to work state and even in non right to work states" nah that does not hold up in court. A judge isnt going to look at an employer getting sued for wage theft and then said oh i guess you just happened to fire this person. Nah thats never goign to hold up. Also yes US labor laws are fucking dogshit but they exist.
They may succeed with the lawsuit, but that job is gone, and it's gone the moment it's filed.
The path of least resistance is unionization, and it would accomplish more faster.
Unionization is great but thats a much bigger ask and far less likely to suceed. And risker as the employee can be fired with no protection as soon as they're found trying to unionize.
I think employees should be trying to unionize as a default and then if they're the victim of wage theft seek legal recourse.
I can agree with the second part 100%
The first though, the same lack of employee protections against forming a union are the same that will get you canned for bringing a lawsuit.
Being fired for forming a union is a completely different case than committing wage theft then firing your employee for bringing it up.
The end result for the employee is the same. Very likely you and I, and statistically, 99% of the people potentially reading this.
Its not though. The employee is far more likely to win the wage theft case than the union firing case and I just think its wrong to try and dissuade people from fighting this issue. Its actively harmful to people to push that kind of a narrative.
I'm not dissuading anyone. Just laying our real world consequences for doing so. I've personally seen very little success with wage theft, the most common form of theft by the longest shot ever, compared with seeing companies unionize like once a month minimum. It helps more people and you're not just risking it by yourself.
People doing both would be great, but let's not pretend either will be just peachy.
Jesus christ. No they dont. There's more than enough dolts like you being employed in an unskilled trade industry for shit wages that has minimal overhead as it is so stealing your wage via tips would mean the restaurant is not going to be in business for long. Its not your employer's job to babysit your paycheck. If you arent reporting discrepancies, thats on you. Noone is guna keep working at a place that isnt paying employees what their owed. Especially not in an industry where the wage floor is so low and the employment is so heavily driven by word of mouth.
Why the hostility and insults to unskilled essential workers? Those jobs are often worked at by young workers who don't necessarily know their rights. I agree it's bad business practice to do it but it absolutely happens.
Its not your employer’s job to babysit your paycheck.
LOL Yes, it literally is.
dolts like you ... If you arent reporting discrepancies, thats on you
Nice insult, very constructive. What would the capitalist business owners do without people like you putting down workers and defending their shitty business practices? Also ah yes it is the workers fault for that they are getting wages stolen from them not the owner's or manager's.
Got a love all the victim blaming going on in this thread right mate? I seriously don't get these people who bend over backwards to lick capitalist boots.
Also stealing wages via tips is different than not paying the difference between tipped min wage and regular minimum wage when there isn't much business. Maybe there was some confusion on your part about what I was referring to there.
Both are forms of wage theft and both do happen, but I wasn't referring to stealing tips in my OC. Perhaps I could've worded my comment better to make that clearer.
Are you thinking not tipping would magically transform a "tipped" position (that was subject to the minimum tipped wage) into a non-tipped position (that was subject to the normal minimum wage)? What's the threshold? A particular percentage of transactions refraining from tipping? Under a specific dollar amount of tips per worker? The employer having to supplement the tips to get it up to the minimum tipped wage more than a certain percentage of the time? Are you sure "yeah, but there's a blank on the receipt labeled 'tip', so theoretically the workers could get tips" isn't enough to make the minimum tipped wage apply? Does it vary by jurisdiction?
Meanwhile, the real person behind the real counter of the real coffee shop you like probably regularly skips meals to afford rent.
Even if what you're suggesting could work, who's to say they wouldn't immediately replace it with some "gig economy" sort of alternative that would turn the workers into freelancers to whom no minimum wage applied?
Yes, advocate for worker rights, but don't kid yourself that not tipping your servers is somehow doing them a favor.
It would actually magically transform it from a tipped position to a non tipped position. If you dont tip the server they still receive a legal min wage. If you tip the server all you're doing is paying the employers share of that employees wage.
No they don't, at least in every single tipped position I've ever worked, which would be at least 20 different places.
In reality what you're doing is just fucking over the person working that position. I agree that the rules suck, but you're not changing them by not tipping. Get involved in a way that will actually make a difference, and if you can't afford to tip, just consider yourself unable to afford that particular service.
Yes they do receive a min wage its just lower than what they receive through tips and thats why they dont want to get rid of it. Look at any other country for what happens when you dont tip. I will never tip out of principle.
I'm telling you from direct experience, that is not the case. It may happen in some, but in my experience, none.
You are helping no one but yourself at the expense of your server when you do that. That part is not something you can argue your way out of.
So you're telling me that the waitress earning $2 hr + $3 per hour in tips will be getting paid $5 an hour and not $7.25? If thats the case, then thats wage theft and its illegal and she should find a lawyer who will sue that employer.
You assume the business isn't committing fraud by not reporting accurate tips and/or aren't taking advantage of the naive and vulnerable by convincing them it is in their best interest to not report accurately.
Wage theft is the largest and most common category of theft in the US, after all.
The only real solution is a general strike of all wage staff that prevents these businesses from operating until things change. But that would require massive unionization efforts before it would even be remotely possible.
No. I am assuming that the business is committing fraud by misleading their employee into thinking their pay will remain $2 + tips even when their tips are below the min wage or the business is just paying $2 + tips instead of the legal min wage. The only thing being discussed here is the Fair Labor Standards Act. Everything else is random shit you're making up to muddy the water.
A general strike would be the best outcome for the business. All they have to do is say "ok things have changed we will pay you what you're lawfully owed.
Legal action the business could be fined 10k or more and the employee gets all lost wages + costs.
Yeah and also when the president rapes kids, he's goes to prison.
I'm sorry how is this relevant?
How the law is intended to work and how reality works are entirely different.
Do you seriously think people aren't winning these kind of cases? FLSA cases get won all the time. Also its different because wage theft is illegal but trump can legally rape kids according to the supreme court.
This sounds like something a non-tipper would say
I mean, that depends. How much love did she put in the coffee?
Please don't put any love related fluids in my coffee
Well then you shouldn't be ordering Cupids Coffee
No, it is not our job to pay their salaries
We need to advocate for better pay, and stop taking tipped jobs.
We need to advocate for better pay
Yes.
and stop taking tipped jobs.
If people could just "stop taking tipped jobs" you really think they wouldn't have been doing that already?
Your post kinda has "have you tried just not being depressed?" energy.
I stopped taking tipped jobs. I'm homeless and unemployed, and suffer from depression and ADHD.
They aren't necessarily linked, but doing one's best to stop participating in certain parts of a capitalist society is actually a choice. It's not like depression.
I've learned paedophiles seem to be naturally skilled with grabbing power throughout history and the present is no differnt. I'm more aware of that fact now.
I've also learmed a large percentage of humans actually are fine with their leaders raping children. One might think they're fine with it in general.
They have no morals, which is why they can grab power so easily. They're not playing by the rules. Thus to win consistently, you'd need to cheat as well.
Then you're left with two options. Cheat to win too, or rolling heads.
Morality and laws are for the plebs. If you’re rich or powerful enough, you get to do whatever you want, so long as you don’t harm another rich or powerful person.
The hierarchy is natural and good and all ills are due to someone violating the hierarchy.
Therefore, laws are only useful when they support the hierarchy.
Any efforts to make society less hierarchical and more equitable are either (a) lies in an attempt to climb the hierarchy (b) doomed to failure and disastrous to the participants because it's against the (natural and good) hierarchy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzNANfNlTs&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=11
EDIT: The above is meant as a satire of the conservative thought process, and does not reflect my beliefs (most of the time).
You may be noticing now. But people have been doing terrible things without consequences forever.
Chatting with a buddy of mine this morning. He is looking at stuff he did in his life. He went to see the play, Annie, when he was a kid.
"They wouldn't do Annie today, it's too woke" I said. Then, it dawned on me. "I'm wrong. Annie would be totally fine.
Short review: 'An orphaned girl is bought by a billionaire real estate magnate and groomed at a luxury resort," would fit right in with the morals of a political party
morality will fly out the window
In my experience, it's the times of crisis that bring morality to the forefront.
The number of genuinely good hearted people will surprise you.
In many ways, we're already at that point. Crises often don't come out of nowhere, and if we think of crisis as a sliding scale rather than a binary, I would argue we're already in a time of crisis, and have been for a while.
That's why I agree with you. I am often miserable and demoralised, and I often feel suicidal because of my personal hopelessness. The goodness you describe is a huge part of why I'm still here. It gives me a wider sense of hope, because many of the best people I know are just as aware of the harms caused by the unchecked power of assholes, but the worse that the world gets, the more steadfastly good they are. Most of them are as depressed as me, but they seem to draw strength from the defiance of giving a fuck about morality in a world on fire.
It invokes a sense of duty in me that helps bolster my own resilience. When I was a suicidal teen, I felt like I was staying alive solely for other people, and this wasn't a productive or healthy way to live. This sense of duty feels different, because it's not framed as if I am a living martyr, sacrificing my own happiness for other people. Instead, it's grounded in the recognition that we're all struggling, and I actively want to stand alongside the defiant good people. Given the shakiness of my resolve, I don't feel like I have much concrete to add to their efforts, but perhaps I can show them that even when it feels like you're losing the big fight, the very act of resistance can galvanise the hearts of people who had already given up. After all, I'm still here.
Yeah you're not gonna like that world buddy.
Keep being a decent human bean still is the way to go, though. Otherwise it's a race to the bottom, Marquis de Sade-style. Fuck these psychopaths, you're better than them!
Apparently this is not a shower thought🤔 /s
You should tip the barista
Her employer should pay a living wage that doesn't need to be subsidized by tips
I also don't know why we tip in Canada, they have the minimum wage paid. It's still not a "living wage", but the retail worker has the same wage.
Yeah also who tips the people who picked your vegetables in the field?
Tipping isn’t gratitude, it’s a system that lets corporations avoid paying workers a living wage. The barista earns a few bucks an hour, relying on tips to survive because the company doesn’t want to pay them fairly.
It’s not the barista’s fault. The corpos' use them as leverage to perpetuate their shitty behavior. If you don’t tip, they suffer, not the business. That’s emotional blackmail dressed up as generosity.
If we keep tipping just to hold the system together, it never has to change. Real change would mean companies paying fair, livable wages up front, even if it makes the coffee more expensive. I’m fine with that and I feel others should be too.
Tipping should be a "thank you", not a lifeline.
If we truly cared about baristas, we wouldn’t just tip, we would be be advocating for a better system that doesn’t force them to depend on tips to survive. A mass refusal to participate in this broken model is the kind of disruption that could force companies to actually pay fair wages.
Instead, we keep tipping because it feels easier and safer in the moment even though it traps workers in a cycle of dependence. I get it. It’s uncomfortable to stop doing what feels like the right thing. But sometimes, real support looks like pushing for change, not maintaining the illusion of it.
Yeah absolutely this. I live in a country that pairs a fair wage to service workers, so the 3 or 4 times I've actually tipped over the years has been able to show gratitude when someone has gone above and beyond on what is a special occasion for me. But until you have fair wages, all you're doing is paying a secret fee that's left off the menu for the worker to be able to survive.
I used to think that.
But if no one tipped, all the employees would leave, and the employer would need to slowly reconsider their life choices.
My sorry ass still tips 20% on everything in the moment though.
Why? If all I order is a drip and they don't have to do anything special, doesn't the cost of my coffee cover everything?
Are clean surfaces something special?
But isn't their labor to clean the surfaces included in the cost of the coffee? Like when I buy groceries, the cost of the groceries pays for the labor to clean surfaces, but I don't tip extra for that. ETA: I think my opinions on tipping in general are sort of clear, but I genuinely want to be convinced I'm wrong. Especially around me, baristas make 15-20 an hour, so I have a super hard time convincing myself to leave a tip if I ever go out for coffee.
It should but it doesn't. Like for a while starbucks tips would go towards the shift that cleans the place.
Why isnt starbucks paying them a wage that doesnt demand a tip? whynot the call center tech? why not the cashier at walmart? why not the guy who signs you in at jiffy lube? why not the janitor at the local mall? why are some jobs more deserving of tips than others?
That's sort of where I'm coming from in a sense. If everyone is being paid a minimum wage (which is 10.50 where I am, but people generally make 15-25 for "entry level" jobs here), why should I be paying extra for specific services?
It really made me stop going and giving them my money in the first place, which is sort of a lose lose for both of us if you don't consider my fiscal responsibility a win.
Many restaurants are allowed to pay their employees below minimum wage. They expect tips to fill that gap.
In Montana that's not allowed. It's possible they don't make much more than minimum wage, but they can't earn less than 10.55. Like I said, in coffee shops it's 15 and up, which is what I make as a teacher
No, it's basic.
This is my random uninformed opinion, and I'm well aware that there are problems with it and it's not the solution, I merely throw it out there as food for thought. I think every worker should make a living wage as base pay, but as a teenager I worked a job that was a tipped job (not food service).
It was in the late 2000s and early 2010s I made about $5.50 hr base pay, which was twice what my employer was legally allowed to pay me as a tipped employee, although by law at the end of the week if my tips didn't get me up to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 they had to make up the difference.
I loved it. I did it for several years and at the end of every year I averaged $12+ an hour, and I was one of the employees who worked a larger chunk of slow shifts which obviously skewed my hourly average downwards. For a 15, 16, 17 year old teen in 2008 when the economy had crashed that was REALLY good money. Every other job was either a minimum wage job, or waitressing for tips. If I worked a busy shift I could work 4 hours and leave $100 in tips richer, plus my base pay. I don't make $30 an hour now working in healthcare.
Anyway, all of that lengthy word salad to say that while I understand and agree with the arguments that tipping culture allows companies to not pay living wages, for teens and college students, who are probably always going to struggle, rightly or wrongly to get a well paying job, finding a job where they are mostly paid in tips can be a life changer. I worked hard in high school and stashed my tips away and when I turned 18 I had a (very) used car that I purchased myself and almost 10k in savings that I used to sustain myself through my 20s when I was trying to launch myself into adulthood through lower paying jobs that didn't pay a living wage. I do not come from a privileged background, my parents didn't help me with anything and in fact from the time I was in elementary school I had to work for basic life needs, so having that savings from my own work was a safety net that would have been almost impossible to build up $7.25 an hour.
My morality works fine. A bunch of lead drinking, lead breathing, racist rednecks need to get fixed.
…preferable with rusty pliers
I am surprised by you being surprised, I knew for about 10 years.
Epstein also definetly did not kill himself but the media in my country is already reporting him as suicide now, and people forget.
Tip service workers, steal from Kroger.
I would go with modern socialism/communism but, ever since Joe McCarthy, america tastes bile in their throat every time those words are bandied about. Pavlov and B.F. Skinner would be proud.
And you feel bad about not tipping because the employer pays them enough
You mean because they don't pay them enough? Also could be a him, btw.
Oops. Ty. Corrected it lol. My mental image of a barista was always female 😅 that's embarrassing
Interesting. I always imagine them as tattooed dudes.
I think it's because "ista" sounds feminine tbh.
Fair
With a man bun
No worries haha. I actually looked up "Barista" to make sure there wasn't a male version before I commented just in case.
He also puts into perspective how easily manipulated we all are.
We still give the most amount of power to the least trustworthy people. It's disgusting.
At the top, it’s a bit different, they don’t need that kind of voluntary self control
They do. The same way the Mafia or the Police do. The morality is fealty and service to your liege and your nation. Guilt comes from betrayal and dishonor, which always involves disappointing your betters.
One thing GoT does well is spelling out the perverse attitudes of aristocracy relative to the proles. Even the "noble" characters are awful for one reason or another
Honestly, I think my moral OCD needed to hear this.