Suicide rates would likely rise sharply if reincarnation were ever proven.
2mon 18d ago by lemmy.zip/u/LemmyBeYourself in showerthoughts
Technically reincarnation is for realsies. Your bits and pieces will be used by nature again.
To be even more technical. You are being reincarnated constantly.
We shed skin and cells and those become something else while our own body rebuilds itself constantly from other life.
The only cells in the body that dont change out are neurons and sensory receptors.
A lot of proteins stay forever though. Like bones, teeth, and probably a lot of proteins in muscles. A lot of others I'm not listing.
But the cells themselves are always dying and being remade (except neurons and receptors).
Flesh of Theseus.
Theseus of Theseus
I've been vegan for over a decade, so with constant cell regrowth I'm photosynthesis with extra steps.
Every animal is photosynthesis with extra steps, some just have more steps.
Well yes, that is technically true. It's just not as funny to say.
thats like the concept of buddhist reincarnation, there is no "soul", ego is illusion in buddhism
like a stream of consciousness constantly travelling through cycles
I think about it in a slightly different way.
Once I'm dead, people will keep being born. When I think real hard about it, it's pretty much the same as reincarnation except there's no need for some kind of immortal soul.
There's no functional difference between my experience of being born and someone else's after I'm dead. In both cases, a new person wakes up inside a meat suit and thinks "this is me." This is already reincarnation without a hard drive and a rating algorithm.
even moreso. ever meet people that are a type. where several are really similar. I have even seen and met my own type. not only will people continue being born but ones a lot like you.
You're actually right on the money. Reincarnation based on certain systems is exactly that, when look at it from it's proper philosophical framework. But you can just pull it out from it's framework, cram it to a completely different framework (like one that believes in individual souls) and then claim it doesn't work.
From the perspective of nonduality, everyone is a reincarnation of everyone, always. It's internally coherent. Also a great reason to practice compassion. Of course people don't super love the idea of being the reincarnation on people they don't like, dead or alive. But that's one of the many reasons nonduality isn't for the faint of heart.
Is that like how we are all a single consciousness simultaneously inhabiting each person across space and time? That idea appeals to me. Don't know that I'd say I believe it, but it appeals to me.
Not quite. We have the appearance of (what we call) individuals within one single consciousness. It appears to reflect upon itself from what we take to be individual vantage points (people). That is an imperfect characterization though, try as I might. I'm pointing to consciousness before any thoughts - before you think there's a you, separate from anyone or anything. Pure experience, before thinking ABOUT it.
I don’t want to live forever through my work. I want to do it through not dying.
- Woody Allen
Good point. What even is reincarnation if you can't remember a thing?
If the universe/multiverse is actually infinite, then just regular reincarnation is real as well, from a continuity of consciousness point of view.
Which means we're all the same being, a.k.a Nature, among many other names.
Some dinosaurs have been waiting for a loooong time.
Dinosaurs reincarnated as all sort of species later on, including human. This manifests in multitude of ways, for example when a furry person has a weird kink for dinosaurs - it's very likely they were one in a past life.
Maybe it does and the queue is so long we just forget about our old life by the time our number comes up
The existence of a queue sparks the follow-up question: What happens if something is born while the queue is empty?
Donald J. Trump.
Miscarriage?
Mushrooms.
They came before the queue got started and will be here long after it finishes.
Pillars of Eternity happens.
I read a short story once that there's only one person constantly reincarnated simultaneously, and everyone you (I) meet is actually me (you) and only realizes it after death before being born into the next person's body,
That’s interesting. I’ve had that same thought before, it might be cool to see someone else’s take on it. Do you remember the name of the story or author?
The Egg, by Andy Weir.
It's also on YouTube in various forms. Kurzgesagt, for example, has a version in their animation style.
Oh my god. That was Andy Weir?!
I don't actually believe this, but it's the perspective I try to have in life. Always treat others how you want to be treated because maybe one day it will be you.
In my story, Maizy's Tails, I made it so that souls had to be aged for 1000 years before they could be reincarnated. Otherwise the lingering attachment (which makes souls weightless) won't allow them to enter into a new body.
The 1000 years is just a nice, round figure the gods use as a safe baseline. Some souls might only need 200 years while others might need 950 or so. Best to just place them all into balloons and let them age in batches 👍
Life sucks?
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Shit I'm a dung beetle now.....yes that's why you don't do that for reincarnation. Though be better than working for my boss right?rimshot but seriously live out your life it's the only one you'll ever know even if you get reincarnated. Maybe it'll surprise you one day.
Would it count as suicide anymore?
strategic respwan?
Rerolling. As a Civilization player, I get it. I'd be aiming for that legendary start too.
I would say it's tactical at best.
I mean I don't see any difference between death and reincarnating without past memories.
In that case, people with retrograde amnesia are already dead and we should just consider them a new legal person...
Yes. That's actually how that works.
If no one can identify you and you have the physical symptoms of amnesia (which can be detected... Sorry fakers!) then you get a new, legal identity.
If you lose all your memories due to amnesia, you will still be you, experiencing reality as you, just with your "hard drive" being wiped.
I still don’t see any difference between death and reincarnating without past memories.
It's like being awake and not remember something vs sleeping and not having dreams.
Well some people who believe in reincarnation seem to also think that at least some memories do get preserved, perhaps subconsciously.
Then there is the whole dualist aspect: if reincarnation is real, something must carry over past death. Call it a soul, or an essence or personality or whatever. While I find dualism highly dubious, I can see its appeal.
That said, one could imagine, at least in principle, that through "some mechanism" your reincarnated body develops the same brain structure that you had when you died, perhaps with some differences needed to account for the different memories. If one entertains this fiction, I would argue there is significant similarity between the person who died and the person who they reincarnated as.
This is a cease and desist on positive anymore usage. Thanks.
cylons can resurrect/reincarnate everytime they die(the show never actually showed how they did it). plus since they had no fear of death thier reincarnation, they can callously keep throwing bodies against thier enemies, and provide useful intel as well.
Frankly I think there’s already a gap on this with religious belief. If SO many people truly believe in god and an afterlife, there should be more suicides. Okay, it’s a sin. Fine. But then why aren’t people happier when a relative passes? It’s almost like no one actually really believes this shit at the end of the day.
I've always said that if I were to believe that there was an eternal afterlife that entry depended on how you lived your relatively short life on Earth, then why would I waste any time in life doing anything other than securing my chances at the good afterlife. Like if you actually believed that, then wouldn't you live your life as a model person according to how the Bible says you should? It's shortsighted to do anything else with your life.
There are many religions and it seems likely they all are just different interpretations of the same source idea - that our lives have a higher purpose.
But I dont think you can be sure that its the Bible that is correct. What if the Koran is correct?
You cant really optimize your life by following a book we dont even know how much its been manipulated since creation. So most people are just trying to do the best they can.
Let’s say this life is all you get: wouldn’t you also do a million things to stay healthy and live longer, which most people do not do?
We invented the afterlife because it’s hard to deal with the fact that life is sometimes nasty, brutish, and short. Death is pretty hard to face too. So we lie to ourselves and each other about it. Simple as that.
The problem is that there's a loophole where you just have to say sorry and all is forgiven.
That's why suicide is a mortal sin, because you can't say sorry after.
Although when my step nephew killed himself (didn't really know him) all they could talk about was that he's in heaven now.
I can't speak for all religions, but in Christianity suicide is a grave sin, so doing that guarantees eternal damnation.
The other bit, people not being happy about a loved one passing, is not really an issue too - it's just the "logic of faith" vs "emotions of loss". Even if we knew for a fact that once you die you get reincarnated into a Happy Bunny, people would still grieve, because that's how our brain chemistry works.
Things explainable with doctrine are explained with doctrine. Things that defy doctrinal explanation are biological or “just because.”
Don’t worry, Chief, I don’t even expect logic from religion, so don’t try.
I have no clue what you mean. Other than stating that suicide is a grave sin, I never touched doctrine or "religion logic". What are you talking about?
You touched doctrinal explanation when you explained how religious people still grieve for a lost one when their entire religion is about how the afterlife is real.
It does not make sense if you think in the logic of the religion. But we are used to religions not being logical.
Maybe you need to read what I wrote again...?
My doctrinal explanation was about suicide being a sin, which is the reason for people of faith not offing themselves left and right. This has nothing to do with how a person handles grief because it's a different topic.
In terms of grief, I explained that however people may understand the logic of the doctrine, their physical bodies still react to the chemical signals received, and therefore grief is still present.
I'm baffled at your take that this is somehow a "doctrinal explanation", mate. It's literally the opposite, I'm talking about biology here.
I am atheistic and agnostic personally, so not speaking from faith but:
People can have two (or more) emotions at the same time, they can be happy and joyfull that their relative is in a better place now and at the same time sad and tearfull that the person is no longer with them. Happy for the dead, sad for themself.
It is not a contradiction, it only shows the very deep and complicated ways of our mind and emotions.
That’s fair - I’d agree. I guess I just don’t see the happy at all.
I think that is because emotions for ourself are stronger and directer then those that we feel in behave of others. The pain and sadness of the personal loss overshadows the happyness that the other person is in a better place.
But this is only my personal explanation, based on my 45 years on this planet but without any hard facts or scientific data to back it up.
I've always had the same thought. You'd think funerals would be celebrations for the religious.
In more secular societies, over the last couple of years, people are celebrating more at funerals. Which, IMO, is a better way to remember a dead loved one.
I'd rather they have fun once more on my account when I die than just sit around being sad.
Yeah, I've seen the "celebration of life" becoming more popular.
Right? We’d celebrate death anniversaries, not birthdays.
They would increase if any afterlife was proven. Even terrible ones ppl will convince themselves are actually good.
“Whoa, they have grilling???”
“Yes, they grill your soul over a pit of pulsing, miasmic ichor. It slowly strips you of even the concept of sanity through sheer agony.”
“I can only imagine the BTUs in grilling heaven, wow!”
The grill is heated by GPUs. Proper soul cooking requires a short bit of searing and then each side gets a good, long cook.
You know they did a good job when the heat sink fins leave those nice, crisp brown lines.
All to keep the data centers that render reality humming along!
So many people romanticise hell for some reason
Probably caused at least in part by the constant shitty behavior of people who are loudly convinced that they are going to heaven, who then turn around and tell everyone else that they are going to hell.
Yeah, a lot of satanic folk, or just those that like the aesthetic, dont actually believe in a hell or satan. Its often a middle finger to the religious that want to control their lives.
My wife grew up in a Jewish household that celebrates Christmas. They never took any religion seriously. She giggles when she has to go to a catholic mass for a wedding or something. She didn't grow up with it and its as silly to her as Satan worship or witchcraft is to other people.
What you consider normal is mostly a function of exposure.
Choose Heaven for the climate, but choose Hell for the company.
There's a Jason Segel movie about this called The Discovery. It's a decent watch.
Hard disagree, the idea of soending eternity in close confinement with "the creator" seems like it would quickly lead to theocide.
Depends... If you come from a religious background and believe in an afterlife its mostly a sin to do suicide and can get you in trouble in the afterlife in most religions
Queue companies finding a way to track your respawn and apply debt from your last life.
I'd come back as a butterfly.
Nobody ever suspects the butterflies!
I've seen a giant butterfly be blamed for burning down a school ;)
I've seen them blamed for literal hurricanes.
You’d have to come back as a caterpillar first.
Now that you mention it, I'm even more excited to experience the living goo in a shell phase!
That's just my current life all over again. :(
Yet they can cause hurricanes
I'm pretty sure in Buddha, where the concept of reincarnation comes from, suicide would negatively affect the karma, which would affect how one would reincarnate. CMIIW tho
As if religious teachings ever stopped people from doing certain things...
Lmao, who cares about "religion bad" in this thread? I thought we're talking hypothetical here. We're talking if it is real, and I am assuming it would be as the scriptures describe.
One step forward, two steps back.
I like the idea of Death in the Discworld. You get what you believe in. That's why some isolated tribes kill evangelist on site , hell only exists if you believe in it.
The monk that believes in reincarnation is always so excited to start again but wishes he would remember more, only remembering his other lives in the time he is dead.
The long desert that Brutha believes in is special when he decides to save Vorbis, and walks it together, even though he is like a messiah and Vorbis should be condemned to suffer his loneliness forever.
I fucking love The Small Gods book so much
What happens if someone believes that death is only temporary, and every time they die, they'll come back to life in an even more powerful form 1 day later?
Death is a specific entity so he has to make it happen and there's lots of things that he nopes lol Like people that become ghosts, he is always like yeah it's weird that nobody tells you what happens next bye! and the ghost has to figure it out for themselves
Congratulations, you found Son Goku!
The short story collection/sorta novel Haunted by Pahlanuik ends with the discovery that the planet Venus (I think? Might have been Jupiter) is essentially an eternal awesome orgy heaven, which everyone will eventually end up reincarnating on when they die. So everyone on earth essentially decides to kill themselves. Stores have to start locking up suicide kits because people will just take them in the store and die before paying.
That entire thing is fucked up. I read it somewhere around sophomore year of high school and existentially traumatized me. There are stories in there that somehow 4chan shock image level in just written words.
Pahlanuik has a certain way of planting images in your brain that stay there for decades. Such a weird, brilliant, fascinating and slightly off-putting author. He really captures the ennui, alienation, despair, and absurdity of late-stage capitalism.
stay there for decades
Yeah. I read that book 20 years ago, and I can still vividly remember someone microwaving some meat and discovering that it was their own ass cheek, or a cis woman being accused of being trans and being sexually assaulted, someone falling into a spring at Yosemite, and of course, “Guts.”
He has a schtick with memorable twists, similar to Fight Club. I think Choke was the only novel of his I remember not really having a giant record scratch moment - Lullaby, Invisible Monsters, etc have huge twists. Like discovering the orgy heaven at the end of Haunted which really just serves to punch you in the gut - absolutely all of the fucked up things that the characters were doing to try to be famous was absolutely pointless, because everyone on Earth is killing themselves anyways.
The only fiction authors I can think of that have given me the same level of intense shock and revulsion would be Ágota Kristóf with the Notebook trilogy (which is spectacular and everyone should read) and Samuel Delany’s Hogg (which no one should read under any circumstances.)
It would depend on how reincarnation works. Do I know I'll be reborn in a better life? They say the grass is always greener, everyone has problems and perceives others as better off. My old guidance counselor's husband said that if everyone sat in a circle, wrote down their problems, put them in a hat, and randomly drew other people's problems, everyone would want their own problems back
It would be a lot like speed runners in games. You just keep resetting until you get a good spawn.
This assumes you don't get stuck as something that can't kill itself to re-roll.
There'd still be a five or so yeah buffer on it, and who's to say that won't be worse. Fun fact I read a pre fall of the eldar fanfic with this basis, it just kept getting worse until Slaanesh was murder fucked into existence.
But you'd have to suffer through infancy and childhood until you're old enough to have the capability to kill yourself
No wonder toddlers are always doing the most dangerous shit
There would be reincarnation preachers, coaches, and scammers, promising you an ideal reincarnated life.
Well those already exist.
Ya but this time the koolaid would be on the poster
I legitimately don't follow the analogy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
Basically any reference to drinking koolaid is referencing a suicide cult.
Because reincarnation was proven they would advertize the suicide part instead of brainwashing them
Gotcha. I guess I agree those already exist (see your link). But I agree that'd be way more popular maybe. Except doesn't suicide guarantee a shittier re-roll?
The whole thing is a hypothetical so who knows?
They'd also probably make it so that debt carries over into your next life.
And it would work.
there's a sucker born every day
You mean there's a sucker reborn every day!
Birth me once, shame on you; birth me twice, shame on me
Cory Doctorow has a story set in a society where cloning complete with mind restoration exists and is pretty quick and cheap. People make regular backups of themselves and then engage in dangerous activities like mountain skiing and whatnot. I forget which story it is: might be ‘Rapture of the Nerds’.
Wasn't that Down And Out In The Magic Kingdom?
Yeah, could be that, judging by the summary on Wikipedia. I was so weirded out by the Disney World aspect of it, that I frankly forgot to follow the plot.
Can confirm, it is Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom. Don't forget deadheading! - everybody being able to basically switch off their brains to a kind of suspend state every time they get bored.
did they cure pain???
Don't remember that, alas: Doctorow's shorter stories and even some novels are pretty weird, and I was often too baffled by some aspects and details to remember the particulars. Need to give them a reread one of these days, and in text rather than in audio.
Pandora's Star, by Peter F Hamilton has a similar premise. It's a space opera mystery, at least 2 books. Highly recommended.
I read a short story back in college about a woman who helped people remember their past lives. Somehow she gets transported to a universe where reincarnation is completely real and everyone remembers all their previous past lives. Suicide was rampant and the world generally sucked. She somehow transitions to helping people forget their past lives to make the world a better place. I really wish I could remember the title of the story.
For some reason this makes me think of something I read in a junior high English class. A group of surfers is driving to the beach when they drive through a tunnel and emerge into gridlock traffic. They inch forward for hours and it gets really hot. The driver finally flags down a passing cop and asks what the deal is. "Oh, you guys died in the tunnel back there and now you're in hell."
The story was called The Jam.
This sounds really interesting actually.
I started thinking that it's crazy that those who do believe in reincarnation always seem to think they are gonna end up back here on Earth. If that shit was real, it would have to be a part of the laws governing the entire universe. Maybe it is real, but nobody on Earth has ever reincarnated back to Earth. They became an alien on another planet trillions of lightyears away.
They became an alien on another planet trillions of lightyears away.
That sounds like an improvement.
Depends on the planet.
If you think fascist are an Earth-only thing, then I want you to meet my good friend "statistics"
I've met plenty of humans. My expectations are pretty low. Good chance I won't even be burdened with sentients.
If this were the case, what if your soul also had to adhere to the speed of light on its way to reincarnation. So iw you were reincarnated into a creature 1000 LY away, it wouldn't happen for 1000 years.
imagine it's FTL.
We manage to preserve messages between reincarnations.
Gets studied to bits by science. Someone develops FTL communication by giving someone a message, offing them and them delivering the message at the new place.
Except that there are a ton of potential places to reincarnate at. So every message needs massive redundancy to properly deliver
reincarnation based FTL communication
Gotta kill 10,000 people just to get a message to one place.
What is this, Warhammer 40k?
What if it didn't and the spiritual space your soul inhabits between bodies is discovered and exploited as a means for faster than light travel.
So you'd have a non zero chance of being run over by a starship on your way to your next corporeal form
What happens if you die in transit? Could you? 🤣
Now we got a book idea. 😃
I tried writing a short story where a guy OD's on a bottle of sleeping pills. As he lies there dying he meets a ghost who encourages him to fight it long enough so his sister can find him and take him to the ER. The ghost is obviously not human, and the guy remarks on it and the ghost says "What you didn't think aliens were a thing?"
Are you kidding me I'm not gonna repeat all the time I've already served.
Yes you will.
If it were proven, and you could identify your previous identity, would you be able to claim your wealth and possessions from previous life?
that would go for debts too, or alleged debts.
Past life crimes bureau.
Sounds like the premise for a cool novel
The Reincarnationist Papers. D. Eric Maikranz
I guess it depends. If you're eager to get the fuck outta this mortal coil, would having to go through childhood again really be something you'd be eager to do?
Who cares, you won't remember anything.
But that's already the case if you die. What would reincarnation change for the better?
I'm not saying that changes anything for me. Just pointing out that going through childhood again if you truly reincarnated would be a new experience. I was only responding to your comment about childhood.
It depends.
If governments don't restrict this information and you get born in a bad family, then you use knowledge of reincarnation and can just kys and keep doing it till you get a good family and childhood...
Then kys by 18 if you dont got rich parents so you can skip the "wage slavery" phase...
Oh I bet governments will start restricting this information...
Like how they bury history books...
Childhood kinda feels nostalgic ngl...
I mean it felt very fun and intense from memory...
I just didn'y know how to appreciate it back then...
I mean me right now could consciousness transfer to 8 year old me and redo all that and I could make it perfect...
If birth rates decline, you're gonna be stuck in purgatory for a long time
I mean 1000 years would just be a blink of eye since you wouldn't be conscious to be aware of it...
Alternatively, maybe I get born into an advanced post-scarcity alien civilization?
See that's exactly where my mind went. Who says you would come back human... or even on Earth with a vast universe with infinite planets?
Brb respawning
GG go next
If any religion with a good afterlife were proven suicide rates would rise.
Not if suicide excludes you from a good afterlife in that religion...
Interest in extreme sports would rise ...
Welcome to a great method on getting soldiers to throw their lives away for someone elses glory. Has been shown to be extremely effective throughout the ages.
Abrahamic religions typically have suicide as a sin, for example.
As an instant-hell in some cases.
Might actually lower the suicide rate. Might as well figure out how to come to terms with things. Next life things could be even worse. People commit suicide seeking the peace of non existence. If that were proven not to exist, then many might avoid suicide.
Doubtful. If you're living a life that seems far below average then there would be no reason not to hit the shuffle button. Heck, since the concept of reincarnation doesn't inherently include a limit on number of respawns then there would be no reason to stick with even a mildly above average life, because you might as well just keep hitting respawn until you wind up in a far above average life.
Nah, if you're going to respawn anyway, might as well try to improve this life the best you can. Even if you fail, it's fine, you can always retry. I agree though that people with debilitating disability or disease would likely retry.
From what I've seen, life sucks for everyone except the hyper wealthy. Money certainly makes life easier, but the nature of our existance or our society seems to impose restrictions on living a truly good life unless you are completely diconnected from the idea of darwinism or consequence.
I dont think reincarnating would result in happiness, it would just prove that you were always going to be unhappy and that achieving happiness is more of something you always strive for to have hope but never really achieve.
Honestly life probably still sucks for the hyper wealthy. Is it a more comfortable suck, sure, but they just get stuck into other patterns of unattainable goals. While there suffering is most likely self inflicted, i.e they base fulfillment on being the most powerful/wealthy yet never are able to attain it, they still never truly reach what they deem fulfilling lives. The fucked part is their greed and need for power ends up wrecking other life's who may have sensible goals of fulfillment, like being able to survive without being constantly on edge living pay check to paycheck. Now those goals could be attainable if those at the top weren't wrecking havoc on the world chasing unattainable fulfillment and making the most basic fulfillment which should be attainable unattainable for the masses, yet here we are.
Yeah, I think you have to try to make the world better, so that when you come back you have a better time
Unless we are able to escape into another universe, I don't think it's possible. There are a lot of human issues that can be fixed, and therefore "improve" the world. I do agree with that.
But beyond that, i think we're fighting the nature of the universe itself. Our universe in darwinian in nature, to thrive you consume resources from a limited pool of resources. For a lot of people, and all life as we know it, it seems to be a rule that in order to achieve "happiness" you have to reproduce. The very fact that this graph represents every single population of life outside of advanced lifes influence shows that the nature of life is to take. Consume more and more of limited resources until those resources become a limiting factor. Which inherently means you are consuming at the expense of others, even if those others arent even created yet.
The nature of our universe tends towards entropy, you can NEVER fix our universe because it sunply doesnt contain limitless energy. To consume, to exist, is to impose restrictions on all other life. Life is the problem, because life is the only thing capable capable of experiancing the unjust nature of our universe. But our universe creates life.
I agree. Proof of reincarnation gives weight to NDEs which have often claimed that this life and its lessons were chosen before incarnation. Furthermore it gives evidence that trauma can persist through lives and by offing yourself you’d likely have to experience the pain of your suicide through everyone who cares. Then you’d carry that extra trauma into the reboot needing even more life experience to heal. It’s a pretty long boot sequence to be learning the same lessons again.
Soul, floating in the void being pushed towards their next life: "Stop! Is existence even worth it?"
I mean, the entire religion of Buddhism is set up to end the infinite cycle of rebirth...so why not?
Cultists are already kinda like that, even christians that believe in the afterlife. They don't care if they're destroying the environment, because the real life begins after the current one.
Trouble is they want to take the rest us with them. See how they attacked Iran.
I know a lot of Christians, and they have normal views on pollution and the environment. They are about as apathetic about the issue as the rest of us.
...they make similar arguments about atheists. "Since they don't believe in sin, they are selfish and violent."
If I could be a bumblebee for 12 seconds I'd do it
You can still wiggle your butt and dance, sister!
Oh wait. That's honey bees. Do bumblebees do anything fun?
They bumble! Bumbling seems fun.
Nah, I tried it and never got any matches
What is reincarnation without memory? It's nothing. The same as it is without reincarnation. The same nothing as exists now.
It's an escape hatch of your current existence is shit, play the lottery and try again for a better luck, even if you don't remember your pervious attempt
The argument is that there is no "you" without memory.
Indeed, if some indescribable lifeforce without identity goes for another round, as I am concerned the original would be well and truly dead anyway.
And get chopped up in the bardo to return as a tapeworm? I don't think so, you're supposed to meditate so hard you return as a lotus flower
That part would just be ignored by the masses. "It's a numbers game, bro!"
True, but they would all end up as vermin, and then hungry ghosts
Isn't there some religion that believes good people come back as dogs. Imagine coming back as a little dog owned by a rich white woman, pampered as heck... hell yeah.
I could see it, though if you're unlucky you'd come back as a dog in one of those "in the arms of an angel" commercials
But after you're chopped up, you do it all again. Presumably you can't stay a tapeworm forever if everything is as chill as Buddhists say.
Indedd, but if you keep wanting stuff (in the case of the tapeworm i guess it's poop or half-digested food), you're gonna end up stuck in samsara foreva
I saw Samsara, terrible plot, but seems like an okay fate.
Come on big money, no whammies… awww sheep liver fluke again
Reincarnation into what?
"Hey, if you die in this life, you can come back as a bug that gets eaten by another bug shortly after hatching. And then you can do this for the next 10,000 years until you get lucky enough to come back as something remotely sentient."
Sounds like that shit sucks, man. You have a real pivotal moment in this life to embrace dharma and appeal to heaven for a higher place in the great pattern. I'll admit, I'm not much of a mystic, but I don't think eating a bullet after a night spent guzzling whiskey is what gets you up the ladder.
Yeah, but I have to go to work, you know?
So time to spin the wheel!
I ain't appealing for shit. Bugs are awesome. If I get eaten, I'm just coming back again, bitches. I can do this all day.
I mean, ok? I'll live as a billion bugs until I come back as a human or something... but I will come back.
But what if all that "bug life" drives people insane and is actually why human beings dont remember past lives.
Still kinda means you can reset your current crap life and hope for a better future one, even if you don't get to remember everything about the previous one(s). I mean, I'd personally argue it's functionally different lives at that point, but there's still a primitive part of me that feels like it counts as a continuation of me even though everything that makes me will be lost.
Not if you declare that animals do not have souls, and only people can feel things.
Okay, but then you're not talking about reincarnation in the Hindu/Buddhist sense. You're talking about the kind of Past Lives shit that western spiritualists are into.
It's all made up bullshit anyway, they can declare whatever "rules" they want.
Idk what that does to the suicide rate
If I had to go through my childhood and resulting alienated adulthood again, I'd try to delay death as long as possible to NOT go through it.
18 luck 17 strength 18 perception 16 intelligence...
Ahfuckit I'm rerolling it
What in the seven hells of asmodeus are you smoking over there to get those stats?
More like how many times would I reroll trying for all 20s
They made that movie already
bleh, romantic scifi? Bram Stoker's Dracula was better
Not a lot of romance as far as I recall. Kinda bleak.
I liked There Will Be Blood.
The Mummy was a lot of fun.
I don't follow. Is reincarnation not usually effected by the life you lead?
That's a yes in Hinduism
I seem to recall a warning that bloodthirsty people would get reincarnated as tigers. I mean, I don't want to hurt anyone, but tigers are awesome. 🤔
We're not talking about a stage production, movie set, nor a DJ performance; you meant "affected", not "effected".
There is a movie about a scientist that proves the afterlife exists. A bunch of people kill themselves. And then it's discovered that the afterlife they thought they found was not infact an afterlife but more like some time spatial recording of an alternative reality or something.
Honestly it's still a little vague at the end how the so called evidence is really supportive of life after death.
Hindus and Buddhists would be dying left and right. Wait, actually, we (Hindus) do believe that if your life's ruined beyond saving, then ending it so your soul can go back to the universe/come back in a better form is a sensible thing to do. At least, we have legends and stories to that effect.
Heck, the Bhagvat Geeta has God saying that killing others or getting killed is not something to be afraid of, since the essence of a being can never be created nor destroyed.
I think this is why the Catholic Church declared suicide a sin, to keep people from killing themselves to get to heaven
They promised this superduper ultra happy afterlife.
If it were not a sin offing yourself as a would be a no brainer.
the first religious leader coming up with the idea, watching all his followers off themselves: "well, should have seen that one coming"
Wait till Rocko's basillisk comes online, and we will see about that.
Ugh. Pascal's Wager for technophiles.
Not if it worked like in Beetlejuice. In that setting, when you commit suicide, you basically 'volunteer' for an office job for an eternity or two.
Christianity made suicide a mortal sin because new adherents kept killing themselves to get to heaven pronto.
I dunno if I want to go around again. Is there a way to opt out?
Just choose phytoplankton. Probably won't remember much of anything
True story: This is why some people "see the light" and also why others desperately tell them not to go towards it.
It’d be a speed run, though!
I'm pretty sure you don't get to choose
Have you considered freeing yourself from desire?
Nope
Ah well I hear it's very difficult so I assume the only people who do it are those who really want it
K
That's the goal of various Eastern religions, it's called Nirvana
Yeah. Everyone knows that
That's actually what buddhism is all about
Yeah and get reincarnated as a stink bug, roll shit all day. And since you don't have sentience you won't be able to kill yourself again.
I highly doubt it. Believers say that when a person dies, their memories are pretty much obliterated. So even if someone is going to be reborn, who they were no longer exists.
In some of the beliefs, your soul maintains the memory, but it’s blocked off by your body. Essentially, when you die, you’ll get your memory back, but you’ll forget it again when you’re doing another cycle.
So the main goal is to get enlightened so that you escape this cycle and graduate to a higher level of existence.
Werent there some book or story where everything on earth is just single being reincarnating endesly in to different points in time.
The Kurtzgesagt team made a video based on this. I think it's called the egg?
Thank you. It was The Egg by Andy Weir
A writer which is super prominent nowadays with the recent adaptation of his book into a movie, Project Hail Mary. Also the author of The Martian.
His website is also pretty cool. This page is just raw HTML, forget "no Javascript", this page has no CSS. And the main page is straight out of the 90s, chef's kiss.
Edit: leave it to me to forget to mention the entire reason I started talking about his website in the first place... Here is The Egg, the short story.
Pretty sure that is the point when people commit suicide.
Its hard enough being born Chinese this life
If I die right now, I'd most likely be Indian next...
Oh hell naw, caste system... 😭
(Assuming if its limited to Humans on Earth...
Imagine being a factory farm cow and unable to even conceive the thought to kys)
For a moment i read Suicide rats would likely rise sharply if reincarnation were ever proven. and i'll just leave it at that.
Good band name, callin' it.
I bet there are way more people who think their life is below average than there are below average lives
But you don’t retain your memories from the previous life, and what if you are reborn as someone who has a worse life and isn’t aware they can do it again?
"Congratulations on your new baby! We wanted to inform you that there's currently a $213,950 balance on their student loans due from their previous life. We've transferred the debt to their name and their credit is already in the toilet."
Back in our AD&D 2e days my buddy would name any character whose rolled stats were sub-par "Cliff" and then will l try again. Guess where Cliff went?
FATAL lets you generate a character with negative health that dies instantly. It’s funny to imagine someone popping into existence and then immediately realizing the setting and offing themselves.
That's not even close to the worst thing in FATAL.
Its funny because the part of you that gets reincarnated isn't your soul its the matter/energy from your body. Law of Conservation of energy and all.
I would only do it if I didn’t come back as a human.
“Beetle again?? Pass.”
Even if there's no karma involved, and which species you get is completely random, chances are you will end up rolling beetle.
Do beetles wear pants and go to work and pay taxes and wage war?
Being a beetle sounds awesome.
I wonder what life as a river otter would be like.
Or a moth. Or a fish. Or an elephant.
No pants. No imaginary lines in the dirt. No government or politics or money or religion or culture wars or hours or minutes.
Just vibes.
Just for that, I’m going to buy a terrarium, sew a beetle a 3 piece suit and hitch a string to its back and into a gearbox. So long as the beetle is moving, its food mechanism will turn once per 1/10th mile, dispensing 20 pellets. 1/20 pellets will be thrown directly into an incinerator, 1/20 will go to another random beetle outside, 3 pellets will go to the terrarium, and 3/4 will go to the weevils in my cocaine dish. I will force them to suffer as I do.
Depends on which human. I would love to live a Dick Van Dyke life. He just turned 100 and said his secret to long life is that he's always happy.
Yeah but there will only ever be one Dick Van Dyke.
It was just an example showing it depends on which type of life you wind up in
I’d still rather be a beetle.
Even Dick had to wear pants.
Or, you’ve got a never-ending war between the Ennis and the Nol-Ennis.
But at least you have Kai Opaka to help sort it all out.
Only if you got to carry over your past memories, which apparently we don't, assuming it exists. So, how would knowing that it exists change anything?
I don't see what carrying over memories has to do with it. The idea here is that if you're living a painful or unhappy life then you could just switch over to living a different life that's more pleasant.
The odds are against you. You're probably going to get a much worse life than this one, especially if you're right now able to muse about the concept on the internet.
Nah, you can just keep respawning as many times as you like until you wind up living a great one
Once you get old enough to understand, and trust, and have agency. Until then, good luck.
But if you dont have the memories and get born into North Korea... will you ever even find out about reincarnarion?
You might be happy being born into north Korea.
Depends...
Next heir of the regime? Sure thing, pal.
There was a scifi story like this. People could remember their was reincarnation and people could remember their past lives and like rich people who reincarnated poor killed themselves and such.
"fuck it, reroll"
Maybe. If it's tied to a kharmic system and not sticking it out led to worse incarnations, that'd probably be a good countering force.
Any thought out system with reincarnation would penalize you for suicide. I seem to remember that Buddhists believe your next life is determined by your performance in this one. You like climb a ladder of existence, and just being a human as opposed to an ant or something is a sign of long term success climbing that ladder. I dont recall what the top was, some spiritual being probably. Go forth and Google.
Ritual suicide is very much a thing in certain systems that believe in reincarnation. At some points it seen as a perfectly rational and pragmatic choice, but yes, you need to do it with specific practices and intentions. Not just "well, life sucks, I'll just reroll".
That's just to lure us into the old "Be careful what you wish for" trap.
You think you have it bad, and you pop up in a hut in India five times in a row
Or you come back as a cat, but not a pampered rich person's cat, you come back as a feral cat with mange in some third world ghetto.
I'd be tempted but what if I reincarnate into a Republican Congressman? Thats the end of the good karma train.
Maybe animals know that, and that's why livestock are so docile about their situation.
Just a quick stat reroll...
Surely reincarnation is a fate worse than death. Most religious afterlives sound this way. I hope no religion is right about anything. I want to cease to exist after I've lived a full life.
Me im first please
No way, I'm going first
Never underestimate the pull of the devil you know.
fuck, man. I don't even want THIS life, why would i want to come back?
It does get better. Gonna take some time though. You have to rest in your life for it to get less shitty every day.
i've been told for 3 decades that it gets better. when does it get better?
There are plenty of examples spanning from science, technology, humanity, etc. but it depends on what you mean by better. It won't get better until you think it's better. There are so many miserable fucks out there that all they have is money. You have plenty of time left.
When the fascists fucking die
Usually after a lot of work with your therapist and coming to terms with your neurodiversity
I've been in therapy since i was a teenager and now I'm almost 40. I'm still depressed as all fuck.
Mushrooms or ketamine? Maybe mdma? Definitely recommend the with a counselor approach if you're scared but just doing it on your own is pretty rad. If you've already tried that then I dunno dude, go live in the woods for awhile and try not talking to anyone, you might just be surrounded by assholes. I was
Everybody wants insurance (and reassurance).
Until you realize everything is just getting worse and you've fucked yourself.
If I could reincarnate back in time however.
everything is just getting worse
The planet is in its sixth major extinction event - one that's been ongoing for roughly 12,000 years. And yet we're finally achieving a kind of universal consciousness regarding the impact we're collectively imposing on the world and the methodologies we can employ to respond to it.
I don't think I'd call that "getting worse". No other lifeforms have ever had the opportunity to know they're going extinct before it happens, much less the faculties to do something about it.
This is a pivotal epoch in Earth's multi-billion year history. I would not say things are getting worse. I would say things have the potential to move in a direction no planet in the Solar System has had the opportunity to move since it was created. That potential creates a great deal of anxiety and fear, because it is much easier to be ignorant - a dinosaur unaware of the looming comet - than faced with the foreknowledge of catastrophe. But it is that shared anxiety that creates the social pressure for universal change.
Life Speedrun would become a thing.
This would fuck up the coming timelines with ridiculous overpopulation.
I'm fairly well convinced that some form of rebirth (similar but not the same as reincarnation) is real, even if it's driven only by naturalistic processes and not something like karma; and that belief has had the opposite effect on me, wanting to prolong this body's life and healthspan as much as feasible.
Given the sheer amount of living beings on this planet that are routinely suffering in far worse ways than I am, it's statistically far more likely that "I" would be reborn into a far worse life than a better one many many times over.
Every choice we ever make is making and remaking the bed we're laying in.