What's an interesting etymology for a common term?
1mon 7d ago by feddit.uk/u/Iconoclast in asklemmyFloors in the Middle Ages were dirt covered with straw for insulation and other reasons.
Threshold = thresh (straw) + hold (a piece of wood across the front doorway to stop the thresh from spilling out)
I don't think anyone has mentioned "helicopter" yet. It's not heli and copter like you might think. It's helico like helix meaning spiral and pter like pterodactyl meaning winged.
Does that mean it has a silent P and we’ve all been pronouncing it wrong this whole time?
Let's take the helicotter.
Hee-licko-tear
Alternatively, we've been saying Pterodactyl wrong this whole time
Not all languages say "Pterodactyl" with a silent P.
I've even seen some that it's a stop /-/terodactly
I've always called them helo-cooters. You mean you haven't?
"Вертолёт" (vertolyot) is a direct copy with "vert" meaning "spin" and "lyot" meaning "to fly".
Germans have a word for that "Schraubflügler"
/jk
I always like to think of "Hubschrauber" as "hübsch Räuber".
Thought of this while looking up where the term "bootleg" comes from. Turns out people used to conceal flasks of alcohol inside the leg of a tall boot to hide them from authorities during Prohibition.
Similar one for the term "shotgun" when you call the front passenger seat. That's where the guy with the shotgun sat when goods and people were transported by horse-drawn wagons. Also, a funny sidenote: in Finnish language it's commonly refered to as "pelkääjän paikka" which translates to "seat for the one being afraid"
Edit: Goodbye - God be with ye
I think I want to start using "be with you" instead of bye now.
Yeah "bootleg" is a good one! It just means smuggled, basically.
You might be familiar with the radio term "roger." Per the FAA's Pilot/Controller Glossary, it means "I have received all of your last transmission. It should not be used to answer a question requiring a yes or no answer."
They want to make it VERY clear that roger does not mean "yes." So why do we use the word "roger" to mean "acknowledged"? Because Americans in World War II.
First of all, radio was still a fairly new warfighting tool in the 1940's. In a lot of cases, they still used Morse code tapped out by telegraphers on straight keys. Morse code was like the SMS of its day, it takes a long time to spell each letter out, so you end up with abbreviations, some of which really only make sense if you're familiar with Morse. For example, you know the radio practice of saying "over" and "out?" In morse code, you use K (-.-) to mean "over" and KN (-.- -.) to mean "out." There's an entire list of "Q codes", for example, you can tell someone to reduce their transmitter power by simply transmitting QRP (--.- .-. .--.). There's one that means "what's your barometric pressure?" because aviation. You'll still sometimes hear "What's QNH?" in aviation circles.
Most relevantly, a reply that simply means "I have received all of your last transmission" is simply abbreviated to R (.-.).
They also had AM voice mode radios. And now we get to talk about phonetic alphabets. We've all independently invented one at least once, talking to tech support on the phone and reading a serial number "One Three Four D as in Dog, Two, E as in Egg, Seven Eight one." Because a bunch of letters sound the same when saying them out loud. You might be familiar with the modern one used by NATO, also required by the aviation world via ICAO. Starts out Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta etc. R in the modern one is Romeo. But NATO formed well after WWII.
The phonetic alphabet used during WWII by English speaking nations went Able Baker Charlie Dog Easy Fox etc etc. Peter Queen Roger Sugar etc etc Xray Yoke Zebra.
So we say "Roger" because in WWII the Morse code abbreviation for "received" was R and the letter R would be pronounced "Roger" on an AM transmitter, and even though the phonetic alphabet has moved on, the word remains in use with a specific definition.
I remember reading a scene where a pilot is getting orders over the radio and it went something like:
Tower: I want you to return to base immediately!
Pilot: Roger.
Tower: I heard a "Roger," but I didn't hear a "Wilco," now I repeat, I am ordering you to return to base!
Pilot: Roger.
Tower: [Explodes in radio transmitted fury]
that's super interesting! Thanks for sharing
Thanks for the detailed history. That was fun to read, and you landed it perfectly back at the initial site.
I don't know if you ever saw the BBC show Conections, but I think James Burke would be proud of your comment.
I've always found it fun how in Germanic (and Romance) languages, we still honor the old gods when it comes to the days of the week. Like wednesday being "Wodan's/Odin's day" and thursday being "Thor's day". I wonder how many devout christians realize this.
I also think the etymology of the German word "Buchstaben" (letter, as in a,b,c) is pretty interesting. It literally means "beech rod" and goes back all the way to Germanic tribespeople carving runes into rods made from beechwood.
English names of days are weird. You have the day of the sun and the moon, ok. Fine. Then Tuesday - Friday are norse gods (Tyr, Odin, Thor, Freya), but what's Saturday doing there?! Saturn is a completely different pantheon!
In Czech we have it simple - Monday is "after Sunday", then there's Secondday, Middleday, Fourthday, Fifthday, Sabbath and Not-working-day.
My understanding, though it could be mistaken because I am not a scholar, is that the Germanic peoples were going through and replacing the Roman gods with Norse equivalents. But then they got to Saturn and were like "Hmm, there's not really a good 1-to-1 match here, so I guess he stays"
That might be fully untrue though. 😅
The Japanese do it cooler. They've got sun, moon, and their classical elements. This can be a fun little rabbit hole when trying to understand machine translated business documents
The Norse called Saturday "Laugerdagr" which translates to washing day/laundry day. They apparently thought doing the wash was equal to worship of their gods. Which, I don't totally disagree. (Cleanliness is next to godliness)
The church wasn't having that though... So they went with the roman God of time. Saturn.
It's funny how I was learning Brazilian Portuguese and the days of the week are like Sábado (Saturday), Domingo (Sunday), but then everything starts becoming "days of the fair", segunda-feira, terça-feira, quarta-feira, quinta-feira, sexta-feira...
And I, an English speaker, have the gall to still find this confusing when it comes to intuitively using non-weekends.
Like "BuT wHiCh DaY iS tHoR's DaY?!" Asks the Californian who's never been a Norseman to their knowledge 😂
Interesting! I thought it came from "book" somehow, but that doesn't really hold up when I think about it.
Well it does! "Book" comes from the Germanic word for "Beech", because we used beech to write on. Just like in the prior example.
Same in Swedish, "bokstav". Beech staff. Funny enough, bok also means book. Maybe the etymology for book comes from that. Or vice versa.
I'm pretty sure book comes from the French world bouc, which refers to goat skin, which was used to make books in the Middle Ages
Interesting. Maybe it's still related somehow if two different things were used to make the same item they somehow were named the same thing.
The days thing also works for Romance languages.
Lunedì = dì della Luna = Moon day
Martedì = dì di Marte = Mars day
etc.
Wait what? Buchstaben = Buchenstab? Never knew that one.
Though in German itself, Wodenstag got replaced with Mittwoch (lit. Midweek) over a millennia ago.
Freya's lucky number was 13.
Christian missionaries trying to convert the Norse heathens spread the concept of Friday the 13th being unlucky to turn people from the old ways
The word "nice" used to mean "stupid." It derives from the Latin "nescio" (translated: "I don't know") and carried over into old French. At some point, it came to be associated with generosity, the assumption being that someone stupid is too innocent or naive to be selfish.
It then got carried over into middle English, and the connotation for stupidity got dropped, making it so that the word meant "kind," as opposed to "stupidly kind"
Is that how the town in France got named?
Mapmaker: what’s that town over there?
Random farmer: (shrugs) I dunno
Mapmaker: (writes) “Nice”
This makes it even funnier with exchanges like:
"My phone's at sixty nine percent, bro!"
"Nice! 😎"
This is awesome. It makes me wonder if we somehow picked up on that through genetic memory or phonetic archetype when we started changing it back to more of a pejorative (i.e. "nice" guys)
Nice!
I love that lol
"Helicopter" isn't heli - copter
It's helico - pter.
Helico: Greek for helix or spiral.
Pter: Greek for wing, like a pterodactyl.
Ooooooh great one!
Thanks ☺️! I'm glad you like it! It blew my mind when I first learned it.
The abbreviation ‘lbs’ for ‘pounds’ comes from the Roman ‘libre pondo’ meaning ‘a pound by weight’.
This is also the reason the symbol for Libra in the zodiac is scales (Libra is the only sign represented by an inanimate object).
I just learnt this today, and I can’t believe I never noticed before now that ‘lbs’ for ‘pounds’ is weird. I always just mentally glossed over it.
This is also why the symbol for a British pound Sterling is a stylised "L".
Edit: the currency was at one time backed by silver, so 1 GBP used to be = 1 lbs silver.
Similarly...Americans size wire carpentry nails as some number followed by a d. 16d nails are most common for nailing together two-by lumber as standard in structures, 8d are used for one-by lumber trim or plywood.
The d is pronounced 'penny'. And like most of the stupid little stuff we do, it's the Limeys' fault.
Back when the UK had three moneys rather than two, they abbreviated pound as L (as above), shilling as S and, for some crumpet eating reason, pence as d. At some point in history, nails were sold in lots of 100, and different sizes at different prices. A box of large framing nails might cost 16 pence, a box of small tacks might cost 4 pence. The terminology has pretty much stuck to this day.
The d symbol for the English penny, comes from the Carolingian denarius, the smallest denomination in the currency of Frank King Charlemagne's empire, which became the model currency for several European currencies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny
See? I knew there was some crumpet eating reason.
The Spanish word for pounds (as a unit of weight) is Libre ... which also means freedom.
Now I'm wondering why Inches are called Pulgadas. And now I'm wondering why Inches are called Inches in English ...
No, libra (the unit of mass), and libre (being free) have unrelated origins, afaik. Libra comes from scales, as in the Libra constellation, wheveas libre comes from liber, related to freedom (and not books (or "libro" in Spanish); that's a different word), which apparently comes from even older languages, meaning "town" or "people".
Ah OK, I've only ever heard it spoken! (And rarely, only when dealing with American service manuals)
An inch is about a thumb's width and if I remember my guitar lesson correctly, isn't pulgadas similar to the word for thumb?
Thumb is pulgar, so that's plausible
In “room and board”, board refers to food coverage. The root is “bord” which is old English for table. But this word actually predates English, I believe from proto Germanic as it is also cognate in other Germanic languages. The only reason I learned this is because I’ve been learning Norwegian for several years, where table is “bord”.
Many things leap from the page when you learn a new language. For example, admittedly strange that this never dawned on me, but I simply never even considered that “maybe” is “may” and “be”. That is of course obvious, but it has always just been in my lexicon as the whole word and its meaning. When I realized the Norwegian “kanskje” was literally “kan” and “skje“ or “can happen” my mind was blown.
I've been learning Esperanto, which is basically just all loanwords from different European languages, one thing I'm a little embarrassed to have learned that way is that "Peking" as in Peking Duck, is just a different/older spelling/transliteration of "Beijing" since it's "Pekino" in Esperanto
Been eating Peking Duck for years, never really stopped to consider where or what Peking was until then.
In Dutch we call the city Peking also. Never knew why it was Bejing in English, figured maybe that's what the Chinese say for it
Old US person here, we used to call it Peking too. I think (haven't looked it up, but it was what I was told at the time we changed it) it's a less-accurate version from Westerners who didn't really listen or asked the wrong person, and Beijing is closer to how the people who live there pronounce it.
Westerners who didn't really listen or asked the wrong person
Or it was simply the best attempt at the time! Idk if you've ever tried to transcribe even your own words phonetically (where you know what sounds you're enunciating) or tried to guess the spelling (much simpler than phonetics) for a new-to-you word in a foreign language even if you understand the language nearly as well (just don't have the vocab yet) as a native speaker. It's really super hard to find letters for sounds!
There's people whose job is nothing but finding and arguing over the most accurate transcription, e.g. for dictionaries or research, of languages that long have a dictionary, pronunciation guides, learning materials, etc., but are wrong a decent fraction of the time.
Or when they're not wrong, they're getting outdated with evolving speech, e.g. "train" has shifted to something like "tchrain" but Merriam Webster claims the transcription is trān while their example pronunciation sounds out [tʒreˑjnə] (loosely: tchraaine) if you listen closely and compare to IPA charts (compare with their entry for "chart", where they show the ch in the transcription but not the initial t! That looks to me like shart! lol)
We might need to give the olden times phoneticians more credit than this 😄. Of course I wasn't there for it either but I was triggered by what sounds like a dismissive default assumption about people not doing their job properly while in reality we usually all try our best 🙂
Yeah, there are other recognizable ones from the same postal romanization, like Nanking.
Vi lernas Esperanton! Kiel vi faris?
Mi komencis per duolingo, sed nun mi plejparte nur legas vikipedio en Esperanto.
Mi instruas min mem jam ĉirkaŭ 3 jarojn, mi ankoraŭ ne estas tute flua, sed mi progresas.
Alone -> all one.
Oh shit, that's a good one!
Oh that's a great one. Bord is also table in Irish.
The word "tycoon" was brought into English from the Japanese word taikun (大君), one of the words for "lord." The Japanese word itself would have been brought over from China a long time before.
Similar to honcho, then. Interesting that both refer to leaders of some type.
Buckaroo comes from the inability to pronounce/ the mispronunciation of the Spanish word for cowboy, Vaquero.
Also hoosegow (juzgado)
Also cool - the Spanish word for jeans is vaquero. So the English word for vaccine and the spanish word for blue jeans are both derived from the Latin word for "cow". I always thought that was neat.
That is super neat!
Boondocks, meaning a remote place, entered English from the Tagalog word bundok, meaning mountain. American soldiers returning from occupying the Philippines introduced it in the early 20th century.
In Latin sinister means left (as in the direction), but later it also meant evil or unlucky. That led to the Old French senestre and sinistre, meaning false or unfavorable. Then finally the English sinister meaning malicious.
The etymology for left (especially in reference to handedness) in multiple languages is actually pretty discriminatory.
Since I'm a left-handed Native American with tan skin and I'm 6'1", I like telling people that I am a tall, dark, and sinister man.
I bet you're really a muffin!
I hate to say this, but I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?
I learned a while ago that the opposite of ambidextrous is ambisinister. The "left" origin of the word sinister gives a bit more context, as if describing someone who had two left hands!
I've heard "a diestra y siniestra" in Spanish which means left and right but it's Latin and left in Spanish is actually izquierda which doesn't have clear etymology. Most popular theory is that it comes from Basque language and somehow substituted 'siniestra' at some point but it's contested. It's mostly agreed it comes from some language that predated Romans and Latin, probably from Pyrenees but no one knows which language that was for sure.
I know isquierda is left in Portuguese too!
The word "standard," meaning "level of quality" or "rule" evolved from the physical battle flag on a pole, as in "standard bearer." So for things like standardized lengths of measurement, you could say "we follow the king's standard for what a foot is," which was a metaphor for following the king's rule on what that length was. That further stretched into a level of quality or conduct that needed to be achieved.
This might be obvious to some, but I only recently realized. A standard was originally a flag on a poll, meant to be visible across a battlefield as a direction for all to follow.
Denim= De Nîmes (from the city of Nîmes)
Jeans = Gênes , the French weird for Genoa.
The cotton weave, indigo dyed cloth originated in Genoa, and in France the main production centre was Nîmes.
So 'denim jeans' is both a tautology and a contradiction
I heard that in Czechia and Slovakia, the word for jeans is/was "Rifle" (pronounced "reef-le"), since Rifle was the first brand of jeans imported there in the 80s.
Interesting. Ty
'Bully' used to mean good friend. There's a scene in Shakespeare (who else?) where he talks about someone sending his bully boys to teach someone a lesson, meaning he sent his close friends. But, over time, people took it to mean his thuggish friends and so the word's meaning shifted.
This actually makes that "santiana" sea shanty song make much more sense.
You'll find it in a lot of sea shanties. I'm a fan of The Longest Johns, it's like every third song.
Fascinate - The oldest meaning of fascinate, “to bewitch” or “to cast a spell over,” comes from the word’s origins in the Latin word for “evil spell.” Over time, that meaning has broadened to mean “to cause to be very interested in,” the idea of “evil” dropping away and leaving the idea of a “spell” or something that attracts and holds our attention.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/evil-origin-of-fascinate
Enchanting!
Mayday comes from French m'aidez which is pronounced similarly, and simply means "help me!"
A lot of naval radio lingo is based on poorly pronounced French.
Source: Certified radio operator. I don't speak French, but I still need to say "Seelonce fini" (probably not spelled like that) from time to time. And there's the periodic "securitee"-broadcasts.
There's also "pan pan", but I'm not sure if that's French.
EDIT: It's also from French, derived from "panne"
Piggybacking off of this one, the reason we say "niner" in the radio to mean "nine" is to prevent it from being mistaken for the German word for no, nein.
The Pilot/Controller Glossary also insists you pronounce "five" as "fife." Good Luck, With That.
Why five as fife?
Partially because NATO has members that don't speak English as a first language and how else do you clarify how to pronounce "five" without resorting to IPA? It's kind of why they insist 4 is pronounced "Fo-wer."
The v sound is so soft that communication grade radios will sand it off so it sounds like "fie" or "fah" depending. The vowel sound is similar to "nine", add in some static or pushing the PTT a little too slow and you might mistake "iev" for "ien", another reason to say niner and to NOT say fiver.
Insisting that you say "Climb and maintain Fife thousand Fife hundred, turn left heading One Fife Niner" makes sure it sounds like words on the far end of the radio.
I've also seen some glossaries insist 3 is pronounced "tree" because pronouncing fricatives strong enough to come across on the radio is hard for some NATO member states.
This isn't a common term but it's something I recently learned that's kind of funny - the country Timor-Leste is named from the Malay word timur, meaning "east", and the Portuguese word leste, meaning "east". So it's literally "East East".
That’s bizarre ….. during the independence violence the news always refers to it as East Timor, so it would have been more literally east east
How is one language more literal than another?
Think of the language like units in a math problem.
“East” (English) is more literally “East”
Than “Leste”( Portuguese), even if it translates to the same
If you make an analogy with temperature:
- 212°F is more literally “212” than 100C even if they are both the boiling point of water
“Son of a gun” is from when sailing ships would come into port. The sex workers would row out to them and have sex with an entire gun crew.
When the kid was born they didn’t know who the father was so he was a “son of a gun” aka a bastard.
I've heard that it's shortened "son of a gun deck", conceived on a gun deck, which would be enclosed and quiet(er)
said in an aussie accent
everyone needs a bigger gun deck.
Nice, I didn't know that
Not a "common" term, but the word Neanderthal comes from the name of a river valley in Germany where neanderthals were first discovered. The valley in turn is named after a Calvinist hymn writer named Joachim Neander who often visited the valley and used its natural beauty as inspiration for his hymns. I find the unintentional synthesis of two ideas that many people would otherwise regard as incongruous to be beautiful in a weird way.
It gets even better than that - Neander also changed his name from German Neumann "new man" to Greek Ne-Ander (also "new man"). So, Neanderthals, the "newly discovered men" were coincidentally from the "new man valley", named after a guy who changed his name from "new man" to "new man".
The "thal" in Neanderthal, meaning "valley", is also the word from which we get the money denomination "thaler", whence "dollar"!
Another fun fact: official German spelling later changed "thal" to "tal" (both pronounced as a hard "t"), so now the valley is Neandertal, not "Neanderthal"
This reminds me of the bird called the canary which means dog. It gets its name because some islands were discovered that had a bunch of wild dogs, and they named them the Canary Islands (from canine). Later on it was discovered that a small yellow bird was endemic to the islands so they named it after the place they lived.
In English, the words for many animals (chicken, cow, sheep, deer, pig) are derived from proto-germanic, while the word for their meat (poultry, beef, mutton, venison, pork) is French derived.
Bonus: A good chunk of river names are just "River" in the local language. So many River Rivers from newcomers adopting the river names, not knowing it just means "river"
The reason for the difference is from the Norman invasion when the nobility were French. So they referred to the food only not the animal in their own tongue.
The kicker is that the peasants spoke the old proto-germanic language, and the nobles spoke the shiny new French derivation. So peasants raised the beasts and the nobles ate the beasts.
I just want to add that a great much of English is German and French.
For example "question" is Germanic rooted while "interrogate" is French.
If I were to be pedantic, I don’t know if it’s correct to say that much of English is German as such. Modern standard German/Hochdeutsch and English have a common ancestor but that split was a very long time ago now. You could say that the grammar is better preserved in German but you could say the same about Dutch, or English‘s closest living sibling - Frisian. „German“ has gone through a great many changes from Proto-Germanic, and still, there’s a mess of different dialects/languages from different family branches in one modern state.
There’s probably a similar argument about the French influence (Norman wasn’t French per se but a closely related Romance language) but I don’t know enough about that.
Not pedantic as much as informing! Thanks homie.
Insulin!
Insulin comes from insula, Latin for "island".
The area in the pancreas which creates insulin are named the Langerhans Islets.
Hence, insulin!
In Russian the days of the week are mostly numbers, e.g. Tuesday is the second day, so Tuesday is Вторник, which comes from второй (second) and the suffix -ник for day. But Monday is not перник as you would expect (первых + ник), instead Monday is Понедельник. This is short for после (after) не (not) делать (doing) -ник (day), i.e the day after not doing anything (Sunday).
In Finnish a tietosanakirja is an encyclopedia, this is a composed word made from tieto (knowledge) and sanakirja (Dictionary). But also sanakirja is a composed word made out from sana (word) and kirja (book). So an encyclopedia is a book of words of knowledge.
In English, the days of the week are named for Norse gods (or the pantheon)... All except Saturday. Sunday... The sun Monday... The moon Tuesday... Tew/Tiw, Norse god of war and justice Wednesday... Wodin (Odin), the all father Thursday... Thor, God of lightning and thunder Friday... Freyja, the lady, goddess of love.
Except Saturday. The Norse called Saturday laundry day. Laugerdagr. Great word actually....
But the English wouldn't have it so they went with the roman God Saturn for Saturday.
But the English wouldn't have it so they went with the roman God Saturn for Saturday.
And what makes this even weirder is that in the Roman languages all days are Roman Gods EXCEPT Saturday and Sunday. But there is an explanation for both these things, and it becomes quite clear when you know the days in some Latin language, e.g. in Spanish it's:
- Lunes: Moon (Luna) day
- Martes: Mars (Marte) day
- Miércoles: Mercury (Mercurio) day
- Jueves: Jupiter day
- Viernes: Venus day
The interesting is the obvious conversion:
- Moon day -> Monday
- God of war: Mars -> Tew -> Tuesday
- God of thunder: Jupiter -> Thor -> Thursday
- God of love: Venus -> Freya -> Friday
Wednesday should have been Hermsday for Hermod who's the God of messages equivalent to Mercury, but I think they thought it was bad not having a day for the allfather and gave him Wednesday.
What about the weekend? In Spanish (and most other roman languages) they are:
- Sábado: Latinization of Jew's Shabat
- Domingo: Dominicus, i.e. the day of the Lord
As you can see at some point Latin languages started using their new christian religion to name days, but before that those days were:
- Saturni: Saturn day -> Saturday
- Soli: Sun (Sol) day -> Sunday
So as you can see the days of the week in English are mostly the days of the week from ancient Rome, just adapted to a different culture.
But why didn't they change Saturday and Sunday? My guess is that because the equivalent of Saturn is Freyr the name would have been too similar to his sister's day Friday. As for Sunday, in earlier Roman history the Sun wasn't an important god so Sunday might actually reference the sun and not the deity so no need to convert it. And in later periods the Sun represented Roman imperialism and centralized power so they wouldn't want that one changed. But these are just guesses from my part, if anyone knows the real reason I would love to hear it.
Very cool!
Lørdag is bath day. The vikings would bathe on Saturdays. Also laundry. I suspect it needed to be a tradition in order for people to get into the cold water without complaining.
The English Saturday is from latin, roman god Saturn.
In the phrase "to get off scot-free", the word scot has nothing to do with Scotland or the Scottish. It's an Old English word meaning fine or penalty.
I once overheard a tour guide confidently tell a group of visitors to Edinburgh that the phrase was coined after one of the "grave robbers" Burke and Hare became a witness for the prosecution and was released. Burke and Hare were actually Irish, and they were murderers.
Tour guides and historical facts go together like ice cream and parmesan
Apparently “wizard” originally meant something like “sage”: someone characterized by being wise, in the same way that a “drunkard” is characterized by being drunk. The “-ard” suffix itself is historically related to the word “hard,” which still survives as an intensifier in modern English. (By the time “-ard” was incorporated into English, though, it no longer literally meant “hard”; I just find the historical relationship amusing.)
I've read that the -ard suffice meant 'too much'. Wizard = too much wisdom, drunkard = drank too much. I wonder what 'bastard' meant too much of.
The -ard/art suffix had already become a pejorative by that time (due to the association of "too much X, and therefore to negative excess"), so a bastard was a "(bad) (child) of the bast", meaning "saddle". That is, a child conceived in a makeshift bed, usually on the road, instead of properly in a marriage bed. Source
Another one on illegitimate children: "Son of a gun" is a shortened "son of a gun deck", i.e. conceived by a sailor on a gun deck.
Apothecary
Ancient Greek for "storage shed".
makes sense

Admiral comes from Arabic "amīral". "Amir" means king, prince, chief, leader, and "al" is the definite article, in English "the" (compare algebra or alchemy).
So admiral means "leader of the", the Arabic for "leader of the sea", Amīr al-Baḥr, was too long to survive the whole game of telephone.
apropos algebra, that comes from al-Jabr, which (approximately) means reunion, resetting of broken parts, or balancing, and is a shortnening of the title of the book (copy-pasted from wiktionary) al-kitāb al-muḵtaṣar fī ḥisāb al-jabr wa-l-muqābala, "The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing". the author of this book, Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi also gave us the word "algorithm" (from al-Khwarizmi)
Most of the words starting with 'al' in Spanish come from Arabic. I think the weirdest one is 'ojala' (I hope) which comes from "Inshallah".
Either „tea“ or „cha/chai“ exist in some form in virtually every language that has encountered tea, and the distinction between which was adopted generally has to do with whether it was first traded with the country by land (cha) from China or by sea (tea) from Malaysia.
So “chai tea” was invented when a very confused importer received two different shipments for the first time on the same day?
This is a great question btw. ✌️
Snafu and Fubar are WW2 acronyms used as slang, there are many other acronyms in the same family, and new ones that have been added since.
Barbecue comes from Spanish barbacoa which comes from Taino language used in the Caribbean region. Natives there invented barbecue, the Spanish took it to the old continent and it spread from there.
Chocolate comes from náhuatl language used by Mexica people. Xocoatl, from xoco 'sour' y atl 'water'.
Coach (as in bus) comes from Hungarian kocsi. They invented a type of horse pulled carriage which later gave the name to the coaches we know from westerns and then to busses and cars. Coche (car in Spanish) has the same etymology.
Are they also related to german Kutsche = horse carriage?
No idea but it definitely sounds like it.
Yes. I enjoy browsing Wiktionary and finding relations between words.
There's a restaurant here called Chai Pani and I never understood why they'd name themselves that (literally "tea water"), but then my Indian father-in-law explained to me what the term is actually used for. It's used if someone wants you to bribe them. It's kind of like asking for some money for coffee - "I need money for tea".
I don't know why, but in Lithuanian we call tip, literally "tea money" so it might be somehow related
German generalizes it even more to "Trinkgeld" -> drink money for tips.
Ich brauche trinkgeld, viel viel trinkgeld.
I've seen this used in a few New York based novels.
Back in the day, a new hat cost about $50.00. Giving someone a $50.00 bribe was 'buying them a hat.'
The British insult "tow rag" or "toe rag", referring to a contemptible and worthless person, is named after the nautical precusor to toilet paper:
Back in the days of sailing ships, the sailors did not have toilet paper. What they did have were rags. Cloth rags known as "tow". After having completed their daily evacuations, sailors would engage in ablutions using a rag. This rag was then tied to a rope and dragged behind the ship in order to clean it (or them).
https://snowbirdofparadise.com/2020/04/02/the-tow-rag-explained/
Tried and True.
To you it probably means "tested and found to be reliable/trustworthy." An example, a few days ago the topic of a car without hydraulic brakes made the rounds. Hydraulic brakes on passenger cars are "tried and true," we trust them, and are skeptical of a vehicle without them. But that's not where the phrase originally came from; it's a centuries old woodworking term.

This is a try square. An OLD tool; examples survive from ancient Egypt. It's such a basic tool that it's often used as the symbol of the carpentry trade. "Try" in this case means "examine" rather than "attempt", more like how a judge "tries" a case than a jedi trainee "tries" to lift an X-wing out of a swamp. A try square is used to examine a board. For squareness, and possibly also straightness and flatness. A board that passes this exam is said to be "true."
"True" meaning straight, flat, parallel or even concentric is still in use to this day; "truing" a surface means to flatten it.
Side note about the brakes reference: that thread was frustrating because the headline readers were assuming the mechanical brakes were being deleted and relying solely on regenerative braking. They weren't. It was replacing the hydraulic portion of the mechanical brakes with electronic sensors and actuators. While I naturally have concerns about electronic failure, it's not like hydraulic brakes are immune to problems. I've had lines rust out and leak, pistons leak, pistons seize, lines clog, and slides seize. Very anecdotally, no failures of electric parking brakes.
Anyway, very neat etymology for both a term and tool I use. I never really considered "try" to be separate meanings between "attempt" and "test" because I took an "attempt" to be a "test" of ability.
Neat, TIL!
Seriously interesting. wood working is such an old trade im sure there are other words with roots on them
Well straight off the dome I can think of another:
A wall that is straight up and down is said to be 'plumb'. ...like pipes? Kinda! The tool we use to measure verticality is called a plumb bob, a heavy weight with a point on one end and a string on the other. The Romans named the tool after the material they made it out of. In English we call it lead. In Latin they called it plumbum. Which is where pipes got their name; they made pipes out of lead. It's why the Atomic symbol for lead is Pb.
Copacetic -- it was just invented as a fake word to mean OK, all clear
It's a perfectly cromulent word.
One of my proudest accomplishments was sneaking 'cromulent' into an official government report before it was mainstreamed into the dictionary.
There are no such thing as fake words, the only deciding factor of whether a word is "real" is usage, if enough use it, it becomes "real"
Fair, but I think in the context of an etymology thread it's fair to say a word that came from nowhere, that someone thought they were inventing anew, is "less real" than all the origins at work here. But I appreciate the relativism, descriptivism, and hyanuboinism.
What's the last one? 😂
I've just invented it from no sources, but I've taken it to mean "intending to inform and correct a future misunderstanding, without correcting the present statement"
I don't have my IPA memorized, but in my accent I propose "high-annu-boyn-ism", in case anyone wanted to use it out loud.
I am sorry but you most certainly did not invent hyanuboinism, that is a very old and respectable line of scientific inquiry.
That was exactly how I guessed it would be said 😯
Maybe we're LONG LOST TWINS!!! 🙀
Makes me wonder what is a critical amount of people to use a word for it to realify
There's a fun thing called a "friendly language", which is any pseudolanguage spoken by a insulated group of 2 or more people, and not spoken by the outside group
That doesn't make it a part of another language though, which is what I was thinking of.
But you're right, as long as communication is successful, it is a language, I guess
When my camp counselor friends and I had friends visit us from the outside world, they said they could barely understand our shared language lol
Bbrg mmhfm mufu pontiac.
I always hated copacetic and I still do.
In archery, arrows have three feathers (in a Y shape) rather than four (+) so that it can slide past the bow without damaging the feathers or the bow. This means that the arrow can be nocked either the right way (with the leg of the Y away from the bow) or the wrong way (with the leg of the Y towards the bow).
In medieval Europe, the arrow would be nocked with the bow held horizontally. To make it easier for archers to quickly and easily nock their arrows, the feather to go away from the bow (pointing upwards) was a different color, and came from a cock (rooster). So when drilling new archers, if they nocked the arrow the wrong way, the instructor would shout "Cock Up!".
This came to mean a mistake.
This is almost certainly not true.
The "mast" in "mastodon" is the same one as in "mastectomy".
"The term "mastodon" comes from Greek roots: "mastos" meaning "breast" and "odon" meaning "tooth," referring to the nipple-like projections on the mammal's fossil molars. The name was coined by French naturalist Georges Cuvier in 1806."
Thank you for this piece of trivia!
Every form of the word "check" comes from a Persian word, shahmat, which means "the king dies". This is from the earliest known games of chess, and that specifically got brought into English as "checkmate".
That's not quite true - it does (probably) come from Persian shah mat, but that meant "the king is stumped, the king is astonished". When originally borrowed into Arabic it was incorrectly assumed that it instead meant "the king is dead", and the mistranslation survived from there into the languages that borrowed it from Arabic. Source.
"Scacco matto" in Italian, which doesn't mean anything (fool check?), but it's surely sounds like checkmate.
100% from Persian "check mate"/"shāh māt"/شاه مات
("The king is dead/helpless")
"Mat" I connect with death always, I don't know why. Mata. To kill. It seems similar over languages somehow.
The term "snorkel" is related to the German word for snoring.
Back in WW2, U-boats (and pretty much all submarines) needed to surface so that they would be able to run their diesel engines in order to charge their batteries because diesel combustion requires oxygen. One German scientist developed a way to get air without having to surface the boat. As this was a very big tactical advantage it was, obviously top secret. In order to not give away what it was, he referred to it by the sound it made i.e. that of someone snoring.
EDITED with new info from helpful Lemmings.
ehh, I'd like to have some source for that. Because I can't find any.
The words "schnorchel" and "schnarchen" don't sound anything alike.
What I can find are some suggestions that with stem from the same germanic root word, but not that one stems from the other
I'm with this guy.
Yeah, pretty much what I expected. Related, but not really descended
Ah okay, related but not descended. Thanks for clearing it up. For my part, I had read it in a book years ago about the Battle of the Atlantic. I'm obviously remembering it a bit wrong.
Alright. I looked it up some more. There's not a lot of information about it out there, tbh.
Germans did coin the term "Schnorchel" for the air pipe in WW2 submarines (although they did not invent it). Which then later was used to refer to the diving equipment.
https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnorchel
It's derived from "Schnorgel" or "Schnörgel", which is an old northern german slang/word for mouth or snout
What is interesting, as far as I can see, "Schnarchen" isn't even super related to the same root as Schnörgel? And the real origin doesn't seem to be really clear and is being discussed. It seems to be more related to schnarren, which is "making a repetitive rattling sound"
"Great" used to mean "big" rather than "really good". Which is why the largest of the islands in the North Atlantic archipelago is called "Great Britain".
"Great-grandmother" is another example where the great=big meaning still shows up...
This penny dropped for me when I heard someone from GB/IR use something like "that's grand!" rather than great. That painted quite a literal picture in my head at the time!
Did you ever recover the penny?
The word "slogan" comes from a swedish word meaning "battle cry".
SLÅÅÅGAN änna
Proto-slavic used the root "dn" (дн) for water, which explains river names such as Dnipro (Дніпро,Днепр), Danube (Дунай/Donau), Don (Дон), Dnjester (Днестр, Дністро).
I tried to look up if Rhein and Rhône are from the same root. It's a theory but not proven.
It's from Proto-Germanic " erei" to flow.
Mosel (Moselle) is just a diminutive of Maas (Meuse)
A hassle is a foreign inclusion in a wool top (what is spun into yarn), which is a real hassle to remove.
A skanky fleece is a wool fleece that is matted and infested with maggots.
The terms date back to the 19rh century.
Goodbye is a contraction of God be with ye
I think it's the same for other languages as well.
Goodbye in Italian is "addio" = a(d) Dio = to God
I'm Croatian you can say "zbogom" or "s bogom" and translates to "with god". I expect other slavic languages have a similar phrase.
The Irish for hello translates as "God be with you". The response is "God and Mary be with you".
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XiD4st5MpFg
Apparently, 'Yucatan' is named as a joke.
Hahahaha, thanks for that.
A brilliant joke that will last forever!
Muscle comes from latin and means little mouse.
The word 'dog' is interesting because it essentially has no etymology. It has no known cognates in English/Germanic/other Indo-European languages. It first showed up in Old English as dogca, referring to some sort of mastiff, but other than that nobody really has any idea at all where it came from.
Bear is a bit similar. It is not known what the actual name of that animal was. The term "bear" refers to brown scary thing that people called it instead because it was thought that saying it's name would summon it. Kind of like Voldemort.
I don't have the specifics, but I feel like I read recently that the word avocado comes from another language's word for testicles.
Like our "nuts"!
"Avocado" is Spanish for "lawyer." I think it's where English gets the word "Advocate?" So why do we call that staple of the millennial diet, the gator pear, that? Apparently that's what the Spanish heard the native Mexicans calling it. But they weren't saying "Avocado" they were saying "ahohado" or some similar. Which in their native language meant "testicle."
That is the version of the story I heard from Alton Brown.
Ahuacatl
The demon bird! 😱
Gesundheit.
Not sure if this is semi-common knowledge or not, but:
I'm sure everyone is familiar with at least one of the geographical adjectives for the cardinal directions: Oriental, generally meaning eastern.
Similarly, you can probably see the connection for the North: Boreal. As in Aurora Borealis.
Known to a lesser degree, there is Occidental, meaning western. I don't have a connection for this one off the top of my head.
And finally, for the sake of this comment, there is the term for the South: Austral. Of course, this is where we get "Australia."
As such, the magnetic light show of the Antarctic is not aurora borealis. It is, in fact, aptly named aurora australis.
Another fun side note: There was allegedly support for the idea of naming Canada Borealia. I personally like this idea, because it tickles my inner 12 year old.
Care means 'heart' in french Coeur.
You should seek out the etymology, which has been doing the rounds in the last year or so, of "POG".
But if you're not familiar with or interested in online video game streamers and the whole lingo that goes around that world, you might be more interested in something a bit more generic like "channel" which traces all the way back to an ancient Sumerian word for "reed".
Vadar (Hittite) = Water (in some form all Indoeuropean languages)
That one's from a common Proto-Indo-European ancestor rather than from a specific known language outside of PIE culture.
I mean, it's plausible that "water" also comes from one specific language to have ended up in PIE, but it's further back than we can trace, so we can't be as certain as we can be for "channel". There's also that water is a lot more fundamental to a language than channels, or reeds, are, which makes it less likely to be a borrowing.
On the other hand, PIE did have at least two words for each of water (ancestors of "water" and "aqua") and fire ("fire" and "igni(s)-"), if not other words. This is somewhat reminiscent of how English ended up with a lot of doubled words after the Normans took over a thousand year ago, so maybe something like that happened back then too.
All I can say is what I was taught a long time ago- I am sure you are righter than I, however my understanding is that the word for water does indeed come from a very ancient common root, possibly originating around the plains of Anatolia.
I however defer to any other input as I lack the academic credentials to assert my claim.
›There's also that water is a lot more fundamental to a language than channels, or reeds, are, which makes it less likely to be a borrowing.
👆
>"fire" and "igni(s)
I have thought about this one A LOT!
I'm self taught at this stuff, and am still very amateur, so I might be entirely off base. I rely on sources like Wiktionary and those YouTubers who do etymology for the love of it and don't seem to have any kind of agenda.
The Finnish word for "to marry" also means "to fuck". Apparently the meaning for fucking was the first one? And the couple gained the right to fuck once they had successfully completed a wedding ceremony.
It works about so that "I want to fuck the you" means "I want to marry you" and "I want to fuck you" without the definite form is an invitation to mere copulation.
Fuck/s
The (very brief) etymology in that video is almost certainly incorrect. "Fuck" has been difficult to accurately etymologize, but the most popular arguments are summarized here.
written form attested from at least early 16c.; OED 2nd edition cites 1503, in the form fukkit
how far we've come, because these days I also say fuck it
Most certainly. I was fishing for nostalgia reactions. But I'll add a tone indicator.
Thanks for the tone indicator, it helped me indicate the tone.
Just doing my civic duty.