Wouldn't it be nice if instead of just bars with alcohol, there were establishments for people to consume cannabis while eating, playing board games, and socializing?
2y 11mon ago by lemmy.world/u/pineapplefriedrice in showerthoughts
If anything, cannabis seems like a much better (and more profitable) drug around which to build a leisurely establishment.
The difference is you can't taste other people's alcohol but you can smell others' smoke
People who are going to a place to smoke typically wouldn’t mind that. Take cigar or vape lounges, for instance. Also it’s usually people who don’t smoke weed who act like the smell of weed bothers them.
right but my point is if a group of friends want to go to a bar and some people don't smoke or like the smell of smoke then there is a problem, it's not like they can just opt not to smell smoke
Then don’t go to a weed bar, I guess. Laws are unlikely to allow weed and alcohol in the same place any time soon… though that already happens illegally at concerts and many bars I’ve been to. But people at the bars usually smoke outside. Colorado gov’t acts like all hell would break loose if people smoke and drink at the same time.
...that's why you would only go to a place like that if everyone is down. Having them for people that want to go is fine, no one is forced to go.
That sounds nice in theory, but in reality the result is usually that if the majority of a group smokes, the nonsmokers don't have much of a choice except for looking for new friends. That was a very common complaint when smoking in pubs and restaurants was still legal here.
Just because one person doesn't want to go to something doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. You're basically saying one person's opinion/choice outweighs an entire group. If those choices constantly put you at odds with the group it might be best to find a group that aligns with your values more. There's also nothing wrong with being friends with the people that want to go to things you don't like, just tag along when they do things you do like. You also don't have to have one set of friends, you can have multiple groups that like to do different things. I'm not pro banning things for the sake of others that can choose not to participate.
That line of arguing is exactly why it doesn't work. And in general I agree that banning things because someone else doesn't like it is wrong, getting rid of smoking wherever possible is better for everyone, including the smokers.
For what it's worth, pretty much everyone here in Austria agrees that the ban on smoking in indoor establishments was a good thing. It's just so much better to come home from a night out and not reek like smoke so badly that everything you touch will smell for days.
Well if low THC vapes and flower carts become common enough, we could see it become much more socially acceptable over time.
The problem is how to shift public perception of it as an anti-social behaviour towards a more acceptable vice that doesn't necessarily have to affect others good time
I don't know anyone who doesn't drink. I would be completely isolated from my friend group if i wasn't allowed to go to the pub with them and not drink alcohol. It would be unfair for them to force them now and again to have a dry night out to appease me.
Now if the place only sold edibles or had like a vape lounge area, that could work a bit better.
and drunk people can be annoying and it is hard to opt out of being around them at the bar
Well you would go to an alcohol bar. There's more than enough of those already.
You can certainly smell other people's alcohol. Most pubs reek of cheap beer
Some establishments yes, but in most places I would not smell alcohol unless someone spilled it all over the floor. It’s anyway much less compared to smoke that will stick to your clothes
The thing is, you don't get intoxicated by the smell of alcohol. I am incredibly sensitive to THC, and just contact high can make me not feel well.
Edibles might make it better. But then you'll need to give people something to do for an hour or so before it kicks in...
You mean like eating, playing board games, and socializing?
Dry vaporizers (with temperature below 200C, convection-based) don't have smoke so are a lot less offensive with smell, if not odorless particularly with access to fresh air.
Also people smelling of alcohol, particularly if they are drunk or drinking liquor, is definitely a thing. Also barfing. I wouldn't doubt bars having bad smells sometimes.
Thanks for the shameless plug opportunity for m/dryherbvapes!
Yep that's the 21st Century way to party. Smoking tastes almost disgusting after making the switch.
Bars could have bar-top vape systems and you could bring your own plant materials or buy there, but you would probably have to buy a disposable nozzle for the vape systems. Each patron could use a clean disposable tip for their visit to minimize germs.
Depending on the the vaporizer tech, I could see BYOB (and a bit of auto-cleaning or just provided qtips etc) being a thing. Meaning bag, bowl, or...
Also personally I have my own mini-"pipe" that I carved, the balloon bag slots into it and it has a carb hole for air-mixing (also it can fit the direct draw/whip mouthpiece into it too, diff orientation). So it's a personal mouthpiece.
there are THC drinks where I live, always a nice option for me to have at gatherings as a non-alcohol person.
Right but you can consume cannabis in tons of different ways - cookies, cocktails, etc. Restaurants had smoking areas for decades with far worse air filtration systems.
Dutch coffee shops, you mean?
One or two every block in the old city center.
That's the trend I wish would emerge in the U.S.: lots of small spaces to hang out in like that
I'm trying so hard not to go on my /c/fuckcars rant right now.
"the" old city center 🙂 The Netherlands is quite a bit bigger than the Amsterdam tourist trap 😁
You can still do it in most city centres thougg. Just with a much lower density of coffee shops.
I was about 20 minutes into a documentary about Dutch coffee shops when i finally figured out what they were on about!
that's just a "coffee" shop in Netherlands
Yeah I did this exact thing often in my early 20s.
and many are actually cozy, comfortable places. and no bachelorette parties!
This is quite common in The Netherlands. They're called coffeeshops.
They are usually not very cozy though since they are barely legal and they don't want to get too much attention.
Some coffeeshops have men with purple hats standing in front, essentially advertising the place. Not to mention all the big signs saying this is a coffeshop, with customers sitting outside on benches and smoking weed in plain sight. It's definitely possible to find coffeeshops with boardgames, although they are not very popular, since I guess most tourists aren't into that, and most locals can just smoke and play boardgames at home.
Since I'm getting downvoted here: what I wrote is based on my experience in the Zuid Holland region. It might be different in other places of the Netherlands.
That’s already a reality in some places. San Francisco, New York, and Amsterdam are some examples.
One can find a 'coffee shop' in nearly any city in the Netherlands. The first was Mellow Yellow in Amsterdam. They opened in 1972. From that point the formula they had, (by selling the cannabis themselves instead of the 60s, dealers hanging around in a bar who would often sell hard drugs as well), spread slowly around the Netherlands into the coffee shop culture we have today. Couple of years later in '75 our government started decriminalizing soft drugs. Early 80s a tolerance policy was set up, so coffee shops were still illegal, but could go about their busyness freely if no involvement with selling hard drugs.
I would love to visit the Netherlands someday. I’ve only been to the airport lol
Add Spain to the list.
Some medical dispensaries even had this vibe years ago.
I went to one in Thailand. Got to borrow a bong and play billiards and Uno and stuff, it was a real nice and comfortable little place
Your dealers home: Am I a joke to you?
Dealer? What's a dealer? Is that something I'm too Canadian to understand?
It's the guy with weed 30-40% less expensive than the guv'mint stores that also happens to be better quality 9/10 times.
(I kid to a point - I use dispensaries too, because what's not to like about picking up weed AND milk on a mini-mall grocery run - but seriously the market value for unregulated weed has plummeted something fierce since legalization. And what I've tried is pretty damn good).
Eh depends on the province. Ontario is great. Quebec did a characteristically Quebec thing by saying that cannabis products couldn't be "appealing", so now they literally sell cannabis cauliflower and these gross granola bar-like things. Does way more harm than good, but they won't hear it.
That was the cool place 20+ years ago, not so much now.
Its hard to justify it for the same reasons we can't have Shisha bars and smoking lounges (at least where I live): 2nd hand smoke.
I can, as a non drinker, go to a bar and have myself a soda, and leave there as sober as when I walked in. If I do that in a room where everyone is smoking up, I will get high from the second hand smoke whether I want to for not.
I mean, why not just have a general social club with coffee/food, games, etc, and just step outside for a puff?
Cannabis can be edible and here in Milwaukee we're already seeing farm bill delta9 show up in bars and restaurants.
The smoke issue has been solved. I've been to cigar lounges that do not smell outside and barely smell inside, despite over a dozen people smoking sotgies in there. Massive HVAC systems and filters handle it all.
They also still allow smoking in casinos in Vegas because they don't want to lose those addicts as customers. The amazing HVAC systems in casinos was part of why they were able to open back up so fast.
You can have a smoking area, just like many restaurants used to. The non smoking area can still serve other THC infused products.
I've always thought this too. It's so crazy how acceptable alcohol use is compared to cannabis use when it comes to socializing for things like work.
There are some board game cafes in the states. And some of those overlap with legal weed :) but smoking indoors in public is still a no-go
They just need a backyard balcony/ patio. I'm sure plenty of people would stick to edibles indoors also.
I haven't been to one but how do hookah bars work? Wouldn't a "weed bar" work just the same?
A bar near me has a few cocktails that use 5mg delta9 THC instead of alcohol.
All of their alcoholic drinks can also be upgraded with 5mg thc for a few bucks more.
Which bar??? Please link if you can, I travel quite a bit and I would genuinely go there.
I know of one in indy: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=indianapolis+dab+bar&ia=web&iaxm=places
I believe there are two cannabis bars here in Indy. Unfortunately, Indiana isnt a legal state, so I'm just waiting for Holcomb et al to close the loopholes they currently have 😭
They've got this in Amsterdam but I would say it's less accessible than bars/alcohol generally due to how polluted the air gets (despite the best efforts of filtration)
Im every large city in the Netherlands btw.
In theory you could just do cocktails/edibles and have a smoking area.
California has a few of these and they’re awesome! Ive seen them in Humboldt county and LA
Definitely sounds like something that would be in Humboldt.
Bay Area guy here. We have quite a few cannabis lounges.
Got any favorites?
Barbary Coast downtown for vibe is a good start
I like to get and be high alone though
There have been a few private clubs in Colorado that allow this. It tends to be bring-your-own but you can smoke and do whatever once inside after buying a membership. Apparently they’re opening more official places called consumption lounges - one is opening on Colfax in Denver soon, apparently.
I hadn't heard about that, looks like they're just waiting to get the ventilation/HVAC approved. Might have to a check Cirrus out when they open.
Apparently the "Coffee Joint" was able to open and allow dabbing and electronic vaping inside without needing to meet the same HVAC requirements.
Most people I know would be perfectly fine with only dabs and vaping. A lot of people consider actual herbal weed somewhat obsolete.
There are a number of coffee shops exactly like that in Cape Town
The issue is that a lot of people that smoke weed in place would reak. I don't think many people would enjoy the smell
Consumables only. Problem solved.
Problem with that is the latency. Suddenly you have to plan on customers staying two hours at least, likely more.
As a drinker, I can still smell the alcohol. Some bars just smell like stale beer and urine.
Maybe it is. I personally find that weed has a far worse smell. But, I am mostly nose blind so any smell that is strong can be overwhelming.
Basically just have the place set up like it's a Korean BBQ joint without the built-in grills
Speaking as a smoker: it's a great idea until someone manages to start a fire (or deliberately sets one.) Also smoky interiors get uncleanably grimy FAST.
People smoked cigarettes indoors forever. Fires where not a big issue in bars.
we have cannabis lounges where I live. it's mostly for tourists that cannot consume in their hotel rooms. no outside products allowed, a menu is provided along with rigs, vaporizers, bongs, etc.
I need to know where I could find lounges like this, for research reasons.
If they replaced individual bars rather than expanded the space where drug consumption is the basis of socializing.
I don’t smoke weed, but phrasing it’s usage as “drug consumption” always annoyed me. It makes it sound like it’s the same thing as heroin or meth, which it’s not even close to the same thing.
It's the same thing as alcohol.
It isn’t. And when people say “drugs” they’re almost never talking about alcohol anyway, unless the conversation is literally about the designation of what constitutes a drug and what doesn’t, which is convoluted as heck.
Depends on your circles I suppose. Drug is drug.
Yep. I can't stand this "oh, weed is harnless" attitude a lot of people have towards cannabis. Its an intoxicant like any other, and should be treated as such.
The amount of friends I have who think that they're fine to smoke and drive are too damn high.
From what I recall weed is considered less harmful and addictive than alcohol. Most recent study that caught my eye was from New Zealand. Alcohol was somewhere on the top along with heroin. THC somewhere in the middle ranks.
Sure, alcohol is pretty bad. But I've been disappointed when looking up places to hang out, so many of them are some kind of bar. I'm fine with people using drugs on their own time, but I'd like for there to also be places where people don't.
Heroin, amphetamines, alcohol, and cannabis all have genuine medicinal uses, and also all can be abused depending on context. Drug consumption is a fine, value-neutral term, which can refer to both their use and abuse.
The war on drugs generation has had that reality tainted though mate. There are a lot of (mostly ultra conservative religious types) people who see drug use as the same whether it be meth or weed. And they don’t see beer the same way usually.
But in a very literal sense you’re absolutely correct. But we’re having a conversation about perception here.
people who see drug use as the same whether it be meth or weed.
But they are correct about this part, there is no ethical or moral difference between using amphetamines and using cannabis.
And they don’t see beer the same way usually.
Well, they're incorrect about that part. But I'm not going to change the way I talk just because other people are wrong. Think about it: I'd never stop changing the way I talk.
But we’re having a conversation about perception here.
Absolutely.
I worked as a chemical dependency counselor for years with all types of addicts. To me, alcohol is scarier than all of them. Quitting drugs is never fun or easy, but alcohol withdrawal will kill you straight up. One cannot quit cold turkey. In my opinion, alcohol is the hardest drug yet invented, it just also happens to be more socially acceptable than the other ones. Challenging this perception is something I care about quite a bit.
I don’t think there’s any moral difference between meth and weed, because I think the stigma around drugs is stupid and harmful.
But if you’re going to try and pretend that there isn’t a difference between meth and weed then you’re being intellectually disingenuous.
This is a great way to make a 30 minute game into a two hour game. Source: years and years of trying it.
Lol, they'd have the busiest kitchen in town.
More friendly environment w/dry vaporizers (bag, whip, or portable/maybe extract) so there's no smoke (under 200C, convection-based) (and note the lack of cotton-candy scented steam clouds that people hate about flavored ecigs/liquid vape pens). Also edibles and the like... but that's just time-delay dosed food.
I would say that drinking is a longer/more gradual experience so has more reason for a dedicated space. Though I guess the passable options that I mentioned could draw the experience out, but I've never done that so I'm not sure what that's like compared to one-and-done/hanging-out-when-high.
(though as others have said, it is a thing)
I'm tired of these people that are so scared of cannabis and it's effects, like they are straight out of reefer madness. You know what's significantly more harmful and in practically everything you consume these days? Sugar. Caffeine is a close second.
Source for the caffeine claim? As far as I know caffeine is inversely correlated with all-cause mortality. The mechanism is uncertain but has been theorized to be mild appetite suppression, digestion, or coffee outweighing the caffeine itself.
The comment might be conflating their given stat with legal drugs that are addictive. Caffeine is more addictive, not more harmful. It still kinda goes to the same point of a rejection of cannabis use on the basis of harm/addiction being generally hypocritical of society though
Lol SUGAR-madness over here
For the ones complaining of smell, Ill take the weed perfume over vomit dipped alcoholics any day.
Should visit Amsterdam. They likely already have this
they do. its pretty fun.
I do hope it becomes more socially acceptable to be high in places you can be drunk, but I think the smoking aspect is always going to be an obstacle.
There's a "weed bar" in St. Louis I know of called The Cola
As others have said, they exist mostly as coffee shops. Honestly, with the prevalence and near ubiquity of Delta 8 across USA now, I would have thought someone would have put the effort into making coffee shops. I have no idea why they haven't gotten around to it yet. I found one that was a coffee shop that had delta 8 for sale, but not as a single product and they wouldn't let me eat it in store...
I visited a couple of places exactly like this in Madrid and Barcelona. It was really cool, although a bit clandestine due to cannabis regulation. If I recall correctly, it wasn't illegal to use, it just wasn't legal to advertise it, or to do it publicly. The people running the places were really nice, bunch of different selections, and they had board games and good music.
These exist in some parts of California and Las Vegas. The ones in Vegas were all open within the last year or two AFAIK.
There's a place like that in my city in Florida.
Houston's 8th wonder has delta 8 drinks you can drink in their yard. It's really nice.
I wish this were a thing
I don't care about cannabis consumption in public but anything that produces smoke or vapor should be treated the same way as cigarettes. Second hand smoke exposure needs to be minimized.
I am also not sure they would be more profitable. Alcohol is dirt cheap to produce and bars charge insane amounts for it. A $10 bottle in the supermarket frequently goes for hundreds of dollars. A cannabis lounge might be more profitable right now because there is very little supply but I doubt you can have anywhere near the amount of bars or clubs.
I agree on smoke.
For vapor, note that many dangers that you have heard of are related to ecigs (liquid-based vape pens). The ones that are flavored+have nicotine and added adulterants (glycol/glycerol at least), and that use a conductive heating coil that may expose the user to heavy metals especially if they get too hot (though probably more of an issue for heavy daily use). Plus with the higher water content, breathing in the steam cloud may be a lung infection risk.
For a dry (herb) vaporizer set at a temperature under 200C (and convection-based), you don't have those problems (2nd paragraph). I am not saying anyone should be near random people with this, but in a dedicated location it should be fine (especially with fresh/filtered air or an open space). You're breathing significantly worse stuff being exposed to the ambient car exhaust to/from said location (also: gasoline vapor at gas stations, or even something as unassuming as candles because those are burning).
There are more pot shops than bars where I live. Plants are pretty cheap to grow.
In Virginia, I have one of those in my town
If they had a place like that here, the cops would post up 24/7, DUI all day baby.
They don't post up around bars 24/7 and alcohol related dui's cause thousands of deaths a year.
Yea hmmm. I guess I have a really shitty opinion of my local cops. They know everyone, and I'd imagine the clientele at a weed bar would be the kind that's more favorable to fk with, for them. They do post up at MAT clinics for sure, and bust people cause they can get a free dui charge, plus jail time, in most instances, cause everyone's got records. I'd like to think by the time I see a weed bar we'd have some more changes as well. Drunk driving is bad.
I think it is completely unacceptable to have public places where people go to get intoxicated in a society that practically requires cars.
It should be required that your uber/lyft, or bus/train ticket is prepaid in order to receive any product in these establishments.
This sounds like a great idea in a city center where cars are banned.
I forget who this was, but some comedian pointed out the utter absurdity of bars with parking lots.
Designated drivers literally exist, though?
But can you really have a designated driver in a weed bar if you get unintentionally high from the smoke in the air? It's not like people are smoking alcohol. If the person next to you is drinking you won't get drunk from them, but if the person next to you is vaping thick clouds, won't you unintentionally get some of the effects?
Serious question.
No, you can't.
But we were discussing parking lots for bars, not parking lots for cannabis lounges.
But we (1) already have bars that have this problem far worse and (2) why would we require being completely car free to have such a place? The vast majority of people already don't drink and drive. Why should they all be held back because of small number of assholes?
I'd rather see impaired driving harshly punished and watched for. Every single person who drives impaired once should go to jail and never, ever drive again. And crack down on it hard. It's a far better use of police time than ticketing people going 10 over. Maybe even make bars have a security guard whose sole job is to prevent impaired driving.
I was absolutely including bars in my comment. I'm sure it's different in other places, but in the US it is very common that bars have parking lots and people drive there and then drive home after drinking.
I don't think there is a small number of assholes who drive impaired. I think that vast majority of people who go to bars in the US drink and drive because it is such a car-centric society no real good alternatives.
No it wouldn't. I'm sick and tired of the childish argument that if we accept alcohol then we have to accept or introduce other substance abuses because some find it more appealing.
Why shouldn't we accept it? Its already poven to be better for you than alcohol, many people enjoy it, and a lot less deaths per year will be caused by wee than alcohol. Should people who don't want to drink not be allowed to have a place they can hang out similar to a bar?
Here we go again. People who don't want to drink alcohol can hang anywhere and still don't drink acohol. The unwillingness to drink alcohol or that "many people like it" are not actual arguments to introduce and use other health damaging substances rerdless of their nature and effects.
I just want constancy. Weed is less dangerous than alcohol. Ban both, legalize both, legalize weed but not alcohol, or keep things the way they are and drop the premise that it has anything to do with health and safety.
That "less dangerous" is so subjective and unfounded that I'm not going to address.
On the other hand do you think it's a good idea to think in extremes? Alcohol is rooted in our culture since literally thousands of years to get it out is almost impossible now but we can struggle for moderation. Weed as we find it on the market didn't even exist 100 years ago. So maybe it's a good idea to introduce it get it common as alcohol so in 50 years we will have the problems with alcohol and with weed on top. Smart.
Then we can go further to other drugs because we cant leave them outside. We have to be consistent and some people really like it.
Complains about how dangerous introducing something is. Then says it is subjective and won't address it.
It's like the Santa Claus problem. Telling kids that Santa Claus is real and watching, then went they get older telling them it was all a lie. Surprise Pikachu face when they all turn atheist. Tell kids that weed is bad for their health. When they get older, watch as half the country legalise medical marajana. Surprise Pikachu when the kids all start trying meth "cause adults lied about one drug, what about the others?"
Consistency isn't just to make certain people feel better. Consistency prevents people from going down dangerous paths.
Well, actually reading a post and just glancing over it are two different things and I can asure you that only the first can help you understand what other person is saying.
Introducing a drug (for which we don't have yet the full table of clinical affections but the data that we have clearly shows it has negative long term effects) to unrestricted consumption and social acceptable norms is not ok especially in the context of how bad alcohol consumption is and how much damage is doing to consumers. But you actually don't care about alcohol consumption, it's just an argument you got flying around from the internet forums and subscribes ro whataboutism.
What I won't address is the comparison "less dangerous than" which is vague and unfounded. I can tell you why but I doubt that you care.
Telling people that weed it's bad for their health is the truth, especially to kids and that won't change when they grow older. But maybe you don't care because you're young and consuming and nothing bad happened to you.
Medical consumption and for leisure in a bar/coffee house consumption are 2 very different things. A medical drug is not something that is all good for you, it's something that consumed gives you more benefits than problems in the context of a health affection. Something recreational is something you consume just for fun. So the element of necessity (the health affection) is missing thus the trade-off between beneficial and detrimental is non existing. You actually have to be consistent in your arguments.
How meta. My only argument is that policy should be consistent, less people stop trusting the authority that is issuing the policy; and you complain that my argument is inconsistent.
Well if that is what you want then your inconsistent with what you ask for.
You see for the last years the consumption of alcohol, tobbaco, sugar, fat, etc. have been publicly "exposed" and criticised in campaigns, programs to discourage consumption have been publicly funded, restrictions regarding comercials, comercialisation and consumption have been gradually put in place and so on.
So actually the legalisation of weed consumption in various degrees is inconsistent with all the public health policies in place right now which tend to be more and more restrictive with unhealthy substances consumption. Just saying.
And how is my argument that we should regulate public consumption of addictive substances consistently contradictory to what you are arguing?
All I know is that I lost a good friend to alcohol induced liver failure, while I have a 3 year old cousin that takes marajana to prevent seizures. Both have the ability to be abused, both have medical applications, but only one is illegal.
Meth and heroin should have consumption venues and dedicated bars also?
You have to make up your mind, what are you speaking about: medical use, recreational use or what?
The consumption of weed per se because you like it or the consumption of derivate medical compounds (like CBD based treatments for child seizures)?
Regulation. I am speaking about regulation of substances based on their potential for harm and good. Nothing more, nothing less.
As long as you don't stink. So fucking sick of weed users smelling like ass in public.
I'm sick of alcohol users smelling like ass. If you don't drink then the smell of alcohol on someone's breath is absolutely nauseating.
I'm gonna add coffee drinkers. Honestly smell like actual shit, sometimes.